The Esthetician Podcast

How to Pay Yourself as an Esthetician & Avoid IRS Mistakes with CPA Danielle Hayden

• Kari Jo

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Announcer:

Welcome to the Esthetician Podcast, where passion meets prosperity. Your host, Kari Jo Patterson, transforms from a solo esthetician into a successful business owner, achieving ultimate time and financial freedom by the age of 38. Kari is the author of Fearless Prosperity, empowering estheticians to build their empire and achieve financial freedom, and the creator of the Empire growth system for estheticians. Get ready for some empire building wisdom now.

Kari:

Welcome your host, Kari Jo patterson welcome back to the esthetician podcast, guys. I am so excited because we're going to dive into a topic that can make or break your business, and that is taxes, taxes and finances. And listen, I know it's not the most exciting topic, but stick with me because we're going to have a conversation that can literally save you thousands of dollars. Today's guest I have Danielle, and she's a CPA and the CEO of Kickstart Accounting and she is on a mission to helping female business owners in our industry take control of our finances, build wealth, and she's like a one-stop shop. So she does like the bookkeeping, the payroll, the tax consulting, and she helps hundreds and thousands of business owners just like you maximize and scale their profits. So I am super excited to have you here. Thanks for joining in with us today.

Danielle:

Thank you so much for having me here. I am really looking forward to this conversation and you nailed it. I love working with entrepreneurs in this industry and I promise you we are going to make accounting and numbers fun today, I promise.

Kari:

I love that because, well, it's so funny when I first got into learning your numbers because you don't go into business, because you're a math person but then, once you start learning them, it's kind of fun and addicting. You're a math person, but then, like, once you start learning them, it's like kind of fun and addicting Cause you're like, oh yeah, so much fun. So I want to jump in, cause it is tax time, which I just like on my. I was just on Instagram and I was posting in my stories and I was like, guys, listen, I have a CPA coming on and I don't even know how I got her during this time, because I know she's working her butt off. So we got lucky. So what questions do you have? So I want to jump into some questions, which is what are the top write-offs that estheticians and the beauty field like? What do they overlook?

Danielle:

So the first things first is it's personal versus business expenses. The first things first is it's personal versus business expenses. So what I often see in this industry is commingling of expenses. So a lot of our clients, when they first come to us, will say well, I am my business and so it's easy for me, as a business owner, to swipe my card when I take my kids for dinner or I'm filling up my gas in my personal vehicle or I need to pay my kids daycare bill and I have the money in my business account. It's my money anyway, so I'm just going to swipe the card.

Danielle:

That commingling not only is it piercing the corporate veil so it is actually affecting the legal protection that it has created for your LLC but it's also creating a bookkeeping and tax nightmare. You guys, we have to keep our financials 100% separate so that when we go to file our business taxes you don't have to think about like, oh, what did I buy at Ulta last January? We don't remember. So use a business checking account, a business credit card, that is 100% separate from how you pay your mortgage, your rent, your kid's daycare, and once those are separate, you'll really have a better sense of where you're spending money so that you can capture every single business expense.

Kari:

Okay, so going along with that, I actually just had this conversation with one of my coaching clients because she doesn't want to claim her cash and I was like, listen, there are a thousand better ways to not pay taxes than not claiming your cash. Do you agree with that? What would you say to somebody who is like I don't want to claim my cash?

Danielle:

Okay, here's the question that I like to ask every business owner as they start to create their business. And you might be like five years in, but here's the question for you what is the long-term goal for your business? Do you want to create a healthy, sustainable, profitable business that is able to fund your lifestyle? And what I mean by that is that if we're always running our business for tax, we're not going to have a healthy business. So if I'm running personal expenses through my business just for the tax write-off, if I'm not claiming cash so that I don't have to pay taxes on it, then I'm actually shortchanging my business. You're doing yourself a disservice, because by not claiming that revenue, you actually made your business look less healthy. You actually slashed the revenue from your business. When you commingle or take expenses that aren't really business expenses, you're taking less profit home.

Danielle:

Now here's what happens. Why is this important. What happens is that you've been running your business for tax purposes for the last few years, meaning you don't claim cash. You take everything you possibly can as a write-off. Remember the boat you bought? Yep, I'm writing it off.

Danielle:

You co-mingle, then you go to buy your car or a home or you have to get funding personally. Well, now, what? Now, what are you going to show the broker to be approved for that loan? Your business financials? You're self-employed, so you're sending them a set of business financials that has less income, that has no profits. When we think about how we want to see our business, if we want our business to be able to fund our lifestyle meaning I can go get a car loan at any time, I can go buy a home or a second home I have the ability to build personal wealth we need to shift our entire mindset Now. I want the cash to go through my business because I want to show more revenue and I want to show more profit, so that when I go and get a buyer, investor or a loan, I am able to do that because I have a healthy business.

Kari:

Yes, I love that. So, my listeners, if you're new and listening to this first episode, I built my business and I sold it within eight years and one of the ways I was able to do that is I actually claimed all of my cash because I wanted to show I had a profitable company. Who wants to buy a company that's not profitable? So I love how you were talking about how it's like let's think of the longterm, like all the little things that it's going to affect when you show that your company doesn't make anything. Do you know what I mean?

Danielle:

I and you might be thinking like, oh, I'm never going to sell my business, you would have no idea what's going to happen in three years, five years, 10 years. So I like to build a business where it could be sold at any time, because I don't know what's going to be next in my life. And one of the best ways that we can build a business that is sellable at any moment is to have really clean bookkeeping and to show a business that is sellable at any moment, to have really clean bookkeeping and to show a business that is profitable.

Kari:

Yes, I'm there, I'm totally there. Okay, so jumping into tax time, I just saw this on a Facebook group where they were like I write off my Botox and I go and like do all that stuff, and then some people are like and then there's like this thread of like 200 people, right, and they're like you can't do that. Yes, I do it. My CPA says it's okay. No, you can't like, yeah, cause I'm like it's my face and I'm selling what, what, what's your take?

Danielle:

Yeah. So here's the thing Again. Go back to what is the long-term goal of your business. If your long-term goal is to run a healthy, sustainable, profitable business, then you want to have that type of personal expense run through your personal account. If you were audited by the IRS, right, so somebody came in and audited it. You know it's going to be up to that auditor, so it depends on who you get and what kind of mood they're in that day.

Danielle:

However, how are you going to feel about explaining to them why you took Botox as a business expense? And if you feel silly in your answer a business expense? And if you feel silly in your answer, you know in your gut, if it feels silly, then that's probably not a good business expense and it's not going to be allowed. So what happens when they say that expense does not pass the audit? You are now going to pay penalties and interest on that expense. So they're not going to send you to IRS jail, but you are going to pay penalties and interest when they disallow that expense. So they're not going to send you to IRS jail, but you are going to pay penalties and interest when they disallow that expense.

Danielle:

So I think it's a decision that you need to make personally and just to be clear, our CPAs as a CPA, you, the business owner, are ultimately responsible for your tax return. Do you realize that you are responsible? Not your CPA? And so they might allow it, but ultimately you're responsible, so you're going to be the one talking to that IRS agent. You're the one that has to feel comfortable with the expenses that your CPA is allowing.

Danielle:

I've seen so many people throughout my years where they'll say my last CPA. They were really encouraging me to put things through my return and through my business that just didn't feel right, just so I could pay less in taxes. And you need to decide if that ethically feels like the company that you want to work with. When our clients work with us so at Kickstarter County Inc our clients you know we're not promising that you are going to pay the least amount in taxes like that. I can't promise you that. But what I can promise you is is that your books are going to be accurate, that your return is going to be accurate, that you're going to understand what you just signed off on, that you're going to be compliant and that you're going to feel good about your taxes and you're going to feel like ethically it aligns with who you are?

Kari:

Yeah, I love that you said you're going to understand, that you said you're going to understand, because I feel like that's like the big problem when it comes to finances and taxes, like, and bookkeeping, like they don't understand, we don't understand. Do you know what I mean? Like, what does it mean? I don't know. Where do you want me to sign? What do you want me to do? We don't you know where, what, what do we need to do to start getting that basic knowledge?

Danielle:

Find a money team who you like to work with. So I believe that every business owner, regardless of your size, you need four people on your money team. You have to have a bookkeeper, because you can't file your taxes or do any financial planning without a bookkeeper. So we need to know where we've been and keep all of our income and expenses organized. So that's money team number one. Now your bookkeeper is your first line of defense. They're the person who you're talking to on a very regular basis.

Danielle:

Our clients communicate with our bookkeeping team weekly, monthly, quarterly. They're booking calls, they're sending us emails, they have constant contact with us throughout the year and they're the people that you could ask questions to as things come up. Then we need our tax planning tax, a CPA who's going to file our taxes. That person's job, their only job, is to file your return. However, they need to talk to you more than just one time per year. I hear it all the time. I only talk to my tax accountant at tax time, upload all my documents into a portal and voila, the return is in my email.

Danielle:

You need to have a CPA who's going to talk to you, who's going to have a relationship with you. We talk to our clients during tax season. Every single one of our clients gets a tax week where we have a live video call with them. We have a mid-year tax check-in, so you want to have a tax team who's going to have a conversation with you, because when you don't understand this information, you need to have somebody who you can call right. Like I don't want you to go and watch YouTube videos, I don't want you to take a course, I don't want you. You do not need to know how to do bookkeeping, you do not need to know anything about the tax code, but you need to have a good money team who's willing to spend time and energy with you to explain it to you?

Kari:

Yeah, absolutely, I agree. Now, okay, do you think and I feel like there are different stages for estheticians, as I talk about in my book? There's the survival stage, where they're not really making a whole lot of money yet, and then they hit the growth phase and they're like, they're busy, they got clients you know what I mean and they're doing really well. Do you suggest, like bringing in a certain amount of revenue before you hire a bookkeeper? Or like is there a good time, you would say, in your business, where it's like you just need a? Or are you like from the beginning.

Danielle:

Just get the bookkeeper, honestly, from the beginning. I just did a discovery call with somebody yesterday who she had just started her business on March 1st, just started seeing clients, and she was so relieved to have this organized and off of her plate from day one so that she knew that she had a solid team as she hit that growth phase. What I see happen too often is that we wait for the growth phase and then we're in the growth phase but guess what, you're too busy now. You don't have time to meet with your bookkeeper, to get things organized, to give them access to everything, to learn the financial reports, to talk to the tax accountant. You don't have time for all of that once you're in that busy growth phase. So take this time before you hit that phase to get all of your fundamentals in place, and I mean that across the business. So make sure you have the right systems, tools, inventory management, everything that you need so that when you hit your growth phase you can enjoy it, you can be in that moment and enjoy the growth and really be there to service your clients and your team as you build the team.

Danielle:

To give you a hard answer, though, once you have regular income in your business, so you're regularly bringing in income. That's when it's no joke anymore. We have to have a bookkeeper in place because we have a responsibility to stay in business. We have clients who are counting on us to show up for them. We've signed a lease, we have vendors, we've created relationships and we have a responsibility to manage the income and manage the expenses, to be able to file taxes. We don't want to tax lien. We have the responsibility, once you have reoccurring revenue, to have all that organized and in place.

Kari:

Yeah, yeah, definitely. I feel like hiring a bookkeeper. I didn't do it soon enough, you know cause I'm like oh and then it's like why the heck didn't I do that, like years ago, like that's like the best thing, it's like the one thing that like people are so I don't know. You just need to offload it. There's nothing better than not having to worry about your bookkeeping anymore.

Danielle:

Look you don't need to be the expert. I think, as business owners, especially when we're just starting out, we feel like superhero cape, right. Like I need to be the one to know everything. I need to be the one to do everything. I need to be the one to do everything. I'm superhuman and like. Retire it. Like as soon as in business as possible. Retire the superhero cape I don't know how to do what you do. Like I literally need you. I need you in my life and it's okay for you to not know how to do everything in your business and for us to collaborate with other people so that we don't have to be the expert and we can say oh, it is off my plate. I can go play with my kids on Sunday instead of doing my bookkeeping. I know it's accurate, I'm not going to overpay in taxes when I go to file my return, I can show up to tax season and I already have all that money saved up. I'm not surprised. I'm organized, I'm confident. There's just no better feeling.

Kari:

Yes, I will double down on that. There is no better feeling. That is the best feeling in the world. So I wanted to go. Actually, before we even jumped on, we were in the green room and we were talking. I was like, before we even like jumped on, we were in the green room and we were talking cause I was like girl, like you do payroll and everything. And so you, you said something in the green room and I wanted to bring it up, cause I was like, oh, I should just on that, on the like podcast, cause I was like payroll, so tell me all about this Like. So, yeah, tell me, can you go back to that conversation? Yes, Okay.

Danielle:

So we do handle payroll for our clients, but we do not handle payroll for anybody who does not currently work with us doing their bookkeeping. And I have a really strong opinion about this and I think, no matter who you work with, you should not have payroll in your business, because you have no business hiring somebody. If you do not have bookkeeping in place, if you do not know your numbers, if you are not actively looking at your income, your expenses, your profit, if you do not regularly look at your financial statements, you should not take on an employee. It's not fair to them. It is irresponsible for us to take on other people if we don't know how to manage our own funds. And so we love being the champion for our clients.

Danielle:

I get so freaking excited when I hear of somebody who is building a team. I just think we have this really cool opportunity as entrepreneurs, to make a difference in our community. When you hire somebody, man, you are changing lives. You are inspiring a family and kids and your community and it's so much bigger than you. But in order for you to be able to pay somebody, you have to know that you can afford to do that and we have to be looking at our financials.

Danielle:

So we do payroll setup. We charge a flat rate $500 to do payroll setup and we use Gusto it's a third party software to manage payroll for all of our clients. But we need to be doing your bookkeeping as well, and I just want to say our bookkeeping plans start at $175 a month. So again, I don't care what size you are or how big or small your business is. When I created Kickstart 10 years ago, my goal was to bring access to financial information to the solo entrepreneur, to the individual, to the mom, to the dad, building a team for the first time, hiring that first employee, and so we like to meet our clients where they are and then we grow alongside them as you continue to build that team.

Kari:

Yeah, I love how you said it's unfair and the truth is, is it really is unfair for you to hire an employee if you don't know your finances right, because you're not really offering them stability, because you don't even know. You don't know what your stability is, you know what I know so like, and that's what employees I mean an employee wants stability, otherwise they would go start their own thing exactly, I didn't even think of that.

Danielle:

That's true, yeah yeah.

Kari:

So another big thing, because I I got to dive into all the things that I know that these people I see over and over again is they are wondering, like should I be an LLC or an S corp? And I don't think they even know you can be in an LLC and file as an S corp and like, can you like break that down so that like People that are not like into your business can understand it?

Danielle:

Yeah, Okay, this is like one of my favorite questions. I love talking about this. All right, I think every single person should have an LLC. So if you're working as a sole proprietor right now, the answer is yes, you need to go file your LLC. You do not have to hire an attorney. You can go to LegalZoom or use something similar to LegalZoom Like. Gone are the days that you have to use an attorney to file your LLC paperwork. Everyone should have an LLC, and the reason is that it offers legal protection. Here in the United States, we have this amazing opportunity to get legal protection as an LLC. So go get it right. Go file the LLC paperwork when you are an LLC, when you pay yourself.

Danielle:

So I was talking at the beginning how we have to keep our business finances separate from our personal. So you create your LLC, you now have a business checking account and a personal checking account. Every time you need to pay your mortgage or your kid's school, whatever you're going to transfer money from your business account to your personal account. This is what we call an owner's draw. Sometimes people call like owner's distribution, owner's draws. We are taking cash out of our business. I like to use the ATM example with an owner's draw. So you are not a business expense to your business and you do not pay taxes on owner's draws. I'm going to repeat you do not pay taxes on your owner's draws. You are going up to the cash ATM of your business and all you're doing is taking out cash.

Kari:

I love that you just said that, because I think that's a misconception. This is great, let's keep going, okay good, all right.

Danielle:

So what you pay taxes on as an LLC is your net income. Sales minus all your business expenses is your net income. That is what you pay taxes on. Super confusing, right, because when you are an employee, that's not what you pay taxes on. I know it's so confusing, but you are going to pay taxes on the net income of your business Now as an S-corp. You then take your LLC and you go tell the IRS I now want to be taxed as an S-corp. So why do we do this? First of all, we become an S-corp so that we have the opportunity to put ourselves on payroll, where we are going to pay payroll tax, and we can take owner's draws. So ultimately, the reason people become an S-corp is to lower your taxable income or your tax liability. So, all in all, net, net, net. You're lowering the amount of money you pay taxes on.

Danielle:

I also think the other big benefit that people don't talk about is that you now are an employee of your business. You're not self-employed. So when you go and buy that car loan I mentioned before, or the home, or you have an investor who, somebody is interested in buying your business, you now can prove that you have stability in your business right that you have income. I had a client who she had emailed me and she said Danielle, thank you so much for encouraging me to become an S-corp. I just went and bought my car and this in the past has been this exhausting process where I have to bring tax returns, I have to tell them how I'm self-employed, tell them all about my business, and this time all I did was give them my W-2 and they gave me a car loan. Yes, she's like I'm an employee. It was fabulous. So I think that's a big reason why you become an S-corp.

Danielle:

Now, once you become an S-corp, you have to be on payroll. You are now a business expense to your business. You lower the amount of net income your business pays. You're paying into payroll taxes, but you have to pay yourself what the IRS calls a reasonable compensation. So this is how much would you have to pay somebody else to do your job if you weren't working in your business? So we have to pay ourselves a reasonable compensation. This isn't for everybody. Not everybody has the cash or the financial position or the confidence to be able to do this.

Danielle:

So at Kickstart Accounting, when we advise our clients, we have a standard policy when we are going to advise somebody to become an S-corp. I have three things I want you to look for. You're bringing in net income of $100,000 per year for at least two years, okay, so you need to be making that net income because we need to have enough money to pay you plus the payroll taxes. Does that make sense? Yes, yeah, I love it All right.

Danielle:

Number two is that, just like you're not going to go on a diet on Monday, you're not going to suddenly stop commingling if you're still commingling. So if you are commingling business and personal expenses, do not become an S-corp. You have to stop the commingling first and then you can become an S-corp. Number three is that you are paying yourself a regular owner's draw. Use the diet example again. You're not going to go on a diet on Monday, just like you're not going to start paying yourself once you become an S-corp. If you are not regularly taking cash out of your business, you should not become an S-corp. We want to make sure that we're paying ourselves that reasonable compensation. So all of our tax clients receive a reasonable compensation report every single year. So make sure that your tax accountant not only is helping you file the forms but getting you set up on payroll. But they're also guiding you on how much to pay yourself. If your CPA is not willing to help you with that, we're willing to help you, because I think that those are very important things.

Kari:

Yeah, I love that you broke that. Okay, you dumbed that down really great. That was perfect. And I love how you were like and I didn't do this before I transferred to an S-c escort but I'm like, wow, that was a really good advice. Was you know, be paying yourself first with owner's draws and kind of like whatever? I mean I was, but not like consistency, but I'm like that would have been like a good plan for me to be like, okay, I'm going to work my way to getting there and I'm going to start here. It was just like you know. So I loved how you gave like a plan of like start doing that, you know what I mean and and work your way up to it. So I loved, I loved all of that, that is, I feel like that could give a good action plan that someone could follow along. What would you say to estheticians that aren't paying themselves? How do they start figuring that out?

Danielle:

that aren't paying themselves. How do they start figuring that out? So if you are currently not paying yourself and you are an LLC, meaning that you're taking those owner's draws out of your business the best way to determine how much to pay yourself. You do have seasonality in this industry, and so we want to look at your average monthly income minus your average monthly operating expenses. That will give you your monthly average profit, and that's usually about how much you can start to pay yourself on a regular basis.

Danielle:

But if you're working with a money team, talk to them. We love when our clients actually talk to us. Yeah, we're not scary, we try to be really, really helpful. And so talk to your money team, call your bookkeeper and say, hey, can you run the average for me so I know how much to pay myself? And then you can say all right, do I have any seasonality in my business? Should I lower that amount, let's say, in the summer? Should I lower that amount in the summer so that I'm not causing any cashflow issues when I have that seasonality? So just have a partner. You know what I mean.

Kari:

Like it's not like you're in it alone, like you don't understand numbers, and I mean, it's true, like we get into this business we don't know what I mean, but like we don't have to be alone, we don't have to just work for free. We can come up with game plans and figure out how to be profitable, and so I love that. You guys totally are all about that. So we are winding down, and one of the things that I built my brand on is on fear, and I think we have to overcome so many fears in order to gain the prosperity that we really want in our business, and so I wanted to ask you I feel like fear often holds estheticians back from making really good financial decisions, because there's so much fear around money, right, whether it's hiring, paying themselves, pricing correctly, all of that things. What do you think is the biggest financial fear that you see business owners making, and how would you suggest they overcome it?

Danielle:

All right, I call this the report card effect. So I think that we avoid looking at our numbers. We bury our heads in the sand because we have been told we weren't good in math. I'm not a money person. I'm not good with money, I'm air quoting, I'm not good with money and we've been told the story for so long through social media, movies, TV shows. If I see one more reel about a Target package or Amazon package at our doorstep, I'm going to lose my mind, because we're taught that we're overspenders and we can't be trusted. It's not true. And our whole lives. We received a report card and it told you if you literally passed or failed, and if you failed, you had to go back and do it over again. You're literally being held back if you failed. Now we become entrepreneurs. Why do you think that you avoid your financial statement? You know what I mean. Because we think that someone's going to tell us if we passed or failed. Like I am still waiting for my mom to ground me, you know? Like, here's your quarterly financials. Danielle, you are grounded. You still talk too much and and and. That's just not what happens for business owners. If we can reframe that and say all right.

Danielle:

My numbers are a tool in my toolbox. I'm going to get this bookkeeping thing off my plate because I don't know how to do it. I'm not the best person for it. I'm going to arm. I'm going to have my my money team handle this for me. When they send me my financial statements, I am going to be brave enough to open the email and I'm going to look at it. I have no idea what I'm looking at and that's okay, because I have this really cool team who I'm going to book a call with and they're going to walk me through that information and then they're going to celebrate my wins with me. They're going to be there for me when things aren't going well and I'm going to be cared for and I'm going to learn how to use this tool in my toolbox, because you don't fail in entrepreneurship unless you decide to close your doors.

Kari:

Yeah, I love that. That is so good and I love the report card I'm waiting for my mom to like.

Danielle:

I don't know about you. I got, I got grounded all the time Like as as if that was like ma. It didn't help last time. We think it's going to help this time.

Kari:

I love it Well, so how can my listeners like if they wanna learn more about you? I know you have some like courses too, don't you Like? How can my listeners find you and find out more?

Danielle:

All right, go to kickstartaccountinginccom slash gift. If you go to that page, you can download the how much to pay yourself worksheet. So we literally have a worksheet right there that you can download. So, kickstartaccountinginccom slash gift. We have our podcast, business by the books, where we come out with an episode every single week on how to use your financials to run your business, and then we would love to partner with you. We'd love to help you. We get it. This money thing. It's not easy and we love. We are on a really big mission to help business owners understand their numbers, make better business decisions and show up to tax season. So come book a discovery call. Our onboarding team is amazing at getting you organized and ready Like you're in tax season right now. However much pain you are in today, I promise you it doesn't have to be that way. Like it can be better.

Kari:

Oh my gosh, I love it and I can't believe you're giving that gift to my listeners. Guys, what are you doing? You need to go and do that pay calculator. There's nothing better in your life like you didn't go into business, to work for free, like to have a hobby, like go pay yourself, and I just love that you have that available. I feel like that everybody needs. So everyone that's listening please go check out her calculator. Go and check out everything that she has going on. Listen to her podcast. Like how valuable is that? I just want to tell you, danielle, thank you so much. This has been like an eyeopening conversation for me, and I know so many estheticians are struggling with finances, and so your insights today is just going to help them make smarter decisions and know what to do with their hard earned money. So I want to say thank you so much for coming on and I hope we can have you back again soon.

Danielle:

You are so welcome. Always a pleasure, happy to be here, awesome Thanks.

Announcer:

Bye-bye. Thank you for listening to the Esthetician Podcast with Kari Jo Patterson. Each week, Kari brings you real-world lessons on how to grow your empire. To learn more about Kari's fearless prosperity mastermind group, one-on-one VIP coaching opportunities and more visit wwwkarijopattersoncom. That's wwwkarijopattersoni-j-o-pattersoncom. See you next week for more insights and strategies on the Esthetician Podcast.

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