35: Finding Sovereignty - Tina Djuretic on Breaking Free from Narcissistic Abuse and Generational Trauma

🎤 Reclaiming Your Voice After Narcissistic Abuse – Part 2

In this powerful second installment of our four-part series, I sit down with author and survivor Tina Djuretic, whose memoir Finding My Sovereignty is a raw, soul-stirring account of breaking free from abuse, cult conditioning, and deeply ingrained toxic family dynamics.

Tina opens up about being raised by a bipolar mother and an abusive father, how that set the stage for three destructive relationships, and the trauma bonding that kept her stuck. Together, we unpack the why behind staying, the generational patterns that keep us silent, and the spiritual awakening that finally sparked Tina’s healing journey.

This is a conversation about gaslighting, grief, guilt—and growth. It’s about realizing the red flags were there from day one, and learning to forgive yourself for not walking away sooner.

We talk about:

• Narcissistic abuse and how it rewires your self-worth
• The cult-like control of fear-based religion
• Trauma bonding and codependency
• What it really takes to break free
• Spiritual healing, sovereignty, and self-love

Tina’s honesty will hit you in the gut—in the best way. And if you’re stuck in a toxic relationship or trying to find yourself again after escaping one, this episode is the mirror and the medicine.

📚 Grab Tina’s memoir Finding My Sovereignty on Amazon
🌐 Learn more at sovereignandsage.com

🔔 Make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss Part 3 of the series!

💛 You have the power. Your voice matters. And healing is possible.

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Transcript

Darla Ridilla (00:01.418)
Hello, friends. I have yet another guest on my show today. This is going to be a phenomenal conversation. Tina has written a wonderful book called Finding Your Sovereignty, and I did just read it. And it is absolutely amazing. There are all kinds of nuances in it, which we're going to talk about today. And I really think that you're going to enjoy this conversation if you're looking for healing, if you're looking for overcoming your challenges. This is the place to be.

So let me introduce you, Tina Juratek is a Canadian author living in Vancouver and she was raised by strict religious parents who isolated her from the rest of the world. What followed were three toxic relationships that nearly killed her. After her last breakup, she sought help in the form of a channeler who sent her on her path of healing. While writing her memoir, she was able to find forgiveness both for herself and her abusers. This process taught her a lot about generational trauma

gaslighting, narcissists, and putting up healthy boundaries. It's Tina's goal to share her story with anyone who finds themselves in a similar situation and educate people on this. Let's edit this out. Give me a second. My teleprompter is not moving. Thank God this is recorded and I can edit this out.

Tina (01:19.509)
Yeah!

Darla Ridilla (01:22.528)
Come on.

you know what? One sec. I don't think it. It pulled your whole bio. Yeah. OK, it didn't. I'm just copying and pasting into my teleprompter real quick. OK, it didn't do the whole thing. So that's why. That's why we're just going to just get rid of all of that. Sorry about that.

Tina (01:33.527)
I think you've all you're down to the last sentence. I think yeah, I think you're down to the last sentence of that bio.

Tina (01:48.598)
Hmm.

Darla Ridilla (01:57.046)
This is why I do live shows.

Tina (01:59.598)
Right? It is. You have to be... You have to be perfect. No, I'm gonna say that. We don't have to be perfect, but we strive to be perfect, right? We feel like we have to be perfect.

Darla Ridilla (02:01.769)
It's too much pressure.

Darla Ridilla (02:07.038)
I know, and I'm not. We don't. Right, we strife. Right? Okay. Take two. It's... Okay. Now it's going to be like Saturday Night Live and we can't stop laughing. Okay.

It's Tina's goal to share her story with anyone who finds themselves in a similar situation and to educate people on the subject of toxic relationships, healing, spirituality, and not just surviving, but thriving. So welcome, Tina. I'm so excited to have you on the podcast today.

Tina (02:48.226)
Thank you. Thank you for having me. I've been anticipating this one with you Darla for a long time. We set this up quite some time ago.

Darla Ridilla (02:54.364)
Indeed. my gosh, we met months, months ago. You were probably one of the very first people that I interviewed when I started interviewing. That was probably, gosh, four or five months ago. I mean, it was a long time ago. It was a while.

Tina (03:01.518)
Mmm!

Tina (03:06.35)
you were probably my first or second, I think. I think you were my second as well. So yeah, there you go. And then all these months for us to get here, but that's all right. Timing is timing, right?

Darla Ridilla (03:15.478)
We are here. We are. So your book actually starts with a really powerful situation with about the toxic patterns in relationships. So can you share the moment you recognized this cycle and how it shaped your healing journey?

Tina (03:33.518)
Well, when I recognized the whole pattern, because I'd say throughout life you see little patterns, right? And you try to course adjust and then I would try and course adjust and I would just repeat the pattern, but in a different way. like, cause each monster wore a different suit, right? So you think you're learning and growing, but in reality your monster just changed its tactics. So it was with the third big partner.

Darla Ridilla (03:43.818)
Yes.

Darla Ridilla (03:48.981)
hahaha

Tina (04:02.83)
that I really came to this and this would be in my mid to late 40s, you know, was about 45, 46 or so when I broke up with the last partner and that's when I realized like, and ironically, he's the one who gave me the knowledge that it was a pattern because he's the one who gave me the word narcissist because he always accused because, know,

Narcissists are really good at blaming other people. So of course the ex-wife is the problem, right? The ex-wife is why it ended. The ex-wife was the narcissist. my God, for two years during our relationship, all I heard was about her narcissistic tendencies. That's why I looked up the word in the first place. I didn't even know what it meant because we didn't have this word growing up. So when it ended, I went, my God, you're the narcissist. And that's when I understood that the pattern wasn't this or that or this. The run through line was,

Narcissist.

Darla Ridilla (04:58.654)
Yeah, absolutely. It's always somebody else's fault. They always have all their exes are crazy. There's no accountability. And it's interesting how that once again will show up in the relationship that you have with them. Then you become guess what you get added to that list of crazy exes, right? Right.

Tina (05:10.231)
Absolutely.

Tina (05:15.49)
That's right, because when I realized at the end that he was bipolar and that that was his particular brand of narcissism, he went and then told all his family that we broke up because I'm bipolar, which should be fairly obvious because my mother's bipolar. So do you see that was his story and he had a built in story because I do in fact have a bipolar mother. So it was easy for him to just go, we all know it's hereditary, right? You just go, wow, gosh, you're so good at pivoting and manipulating and just, know.

Darla Ridilla (05:33.183)
Mm-hmm.

Tina (05:45.144)
Yeah, because of course it's never good enough. Absolutely. And it's never good enough for them to just cut you out of their life. They need to make sure that every single human that you ever met through them is cut out of your life. Right? So yeah.

Darla Ridilla (05:46.399)
It's that transference.

Darla Ridilla (05:57.204)
Right, right. No, absolutely. Yeah. And kind of following on that, you mentioned about your father being bipolar. And in the book, you did talk about him being abusive, and your mother was narcissistic as well. So how did these dynamics influence your adult relationships? And what was that turning point when you broke free from them?

Tina (06:21.592)
So I'm just gonna flip that for you. My father was really physically abusive. My mother's bipolar. You said my father was bipolar. So I'm just gonna flip, just, yeah, just flipping that for you, just to be clear. So my father came with a lot of physical abuse, as you said. My mother was all of it. It was a whole gamut, right? Because physical wasn't enough. you know, narcissists, where they thrive on that mental and emotional abuse, right? Because that stays with you. You heal from physical wounds, but you carry.

Darla Ridilla (06:23.743)
Yeah.

Darla Ridilla (06:27.784)
Okay, so I got it. Yeah. Yes.

Darla Ridilla (06:39.221)
Right.

Darla Ridilla (06:44.128)
Mm-hmm.

Darla Ridilla (06:48.382)
Yes.

Tina (06:49.396)
you carry that mental abuse with you. that was even as I got older because I blocked childhood. So that's really important, right? Like I didn't even know there was patterns because I didn't even know what childhood I knew what happened during childhood. I have three sisters who remember everything. So of course we've talked about it, but I didn't have the memory. And I think there's a big difference between saying I was abused as a child. Then when you have the real rolling around in your head on

repeat, right, or in your nightmares or in your dreams. So there is a difference. But that doesn't mean I got to escape my patterns. So they were still there. So with regard to my parents. gosh, well, so physical, mental, emotional abuse. then my first partner, Darla, tell me what the question was again, because I think I just squirreled. I'm so good at that squirrel.

Darla Ridilla (07:18.922)
Mm-hmm.

Darla Ridilla (07:43.67)
I know, I'm in the same boat. It's been a crazy day. So it was, what was the turning... It's okay. So what was the turning point? The turning point in breaking free from those abusive experiences.

Tina (07:47.778)
I do that. I'm not gonna lie.

Tina (07:56.686)
Break a break, thank you. I'm just gonna, cause I, okay, break a break. Cause I could just keep babbling, but I know I'm not getting to a point. Or your point.

Darla Ridilla (08:03.186)
you can babble too. mean, wherever it goes, goes.

Tina (08:09.198)
I would say, so again, so for me, this is where not having the language worked against me. I think, you know, people my age, we all have the same idea because we didn't have this terminology of gaslighting and narcissistic abuse until we were much, much older. This is recent words to put to this. so when did I realize I'd say it came in stages? So my first partner didn't love me back.

He was also Serbian, so there is really not a far line between my Serbian father and my partner, you know, who didn't... Well, he wasn't my partner. We were best friends, really good friends, and I just pined over him for two years. So we never got together. It was unrequited love, but boy, did he love keeping me in love. Right? Like, you can go...

Darla Ridilla (08:56.742)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Tina (09:00.926)
gosh, I think my friend's in love with me and I hate it for her because gosh, that's going to be awful when I tell her I don't feel the same or you can feel power from that. And so you keep it going. Right. There's a big difference. So when that relationship ended, I understood that I was dating my father. understood that even, you know, look like him, the dark hair and the whole shabbit. But I also understood that unrequited love was my parents. I got that. So here I am thinking.

Darla Ridilla (09:11.84)
Right, right.

Darla Ridilla (09:28.246)
Yeah. Yeah.

Tina (09:29.902)
I'm learning, I'm growing, right? I'm 20, I don't know, 27 around this age, going, I'm learning, I'm growing, right? I will never pine over someone who doesn't love me back ever again. I will never be the one to say I love you first. I will never be, this is when I put down all of these pretty unhealthy, but the part about never pining over someone who doesn't love me back, healthy.

The part about I'll never say I love you first, these were just walls I was putting up, right? So here I think I'm doing it to protect myself, but I'm just creating more walls. The next partner came on the heels of this one. So if you think, you know, a really important piece of information is that I'm 27 before I have my first boyfriend or 26. Like I am not a child. And I'm already wondering why no one is ever attracted to me.

Darla Ridilla (09:56.938)
Right.

Tina (10:19.81)
What is wrong with me that I'm so horrible that no one thinks I'm beautiful. Nobody wants to be with me. I have millions of friends, but nobody likes me romantically. What's wrong with me? I'm not sexy. I'm not this. I'm not that, right? We have these thoughts. So I fall in love with someone who doesn't love me back. He's just showing me that this is the truth of my life, right? So, then the next person comes on the heels of this one and he love bombed me to death.

I was the most sexy, magnificent, talented, amazing human being ever. Well, after begging for attention for two years, someone throws it at me, right? I think I'm learning and growing because I promise I will never fall in love with someone who doesn't, right? Love me back again. So then the next one is so extremely different, but see, I don't see the through line yet. So the next one has to use a different tactic as well, right?

Darla Ridilla (11:11.217)
Right.

Darla Ridilla (11:16.405)
Right.

Yes.

Tina (11:19.518)
Ignoring me is not going to work. So he love bombs me to death. Okay. He's an addict. I end up with this man for seven long painful years. I was not myself when it was over. I was not even barely surviving when it was over. It destroyed me. Okay. When it's over.

I am not someone who jumped from relationship to relationship despite what I just said about these two being on the heels of each other. I would go years between partners. Okay. These two just, and even though they were on the heels to be fair, hadn't dated anyone in two years. So it wasn't like I jumped from one, do you know what I'm saying? I bind over someone. So, so now I break up with this man and I go years without dating. And of course I'm psychoanalyzing again, cause I am a psychoanalyzer. And so I'm

Darla Ridilla (11:47.264)
Mm-hmm.

Darla Ridilla (11:55.934)
Right. Yes. Yes.

Darla Ridilla (12:06.87)
Mm-hmm.

Tina (12:08.814)
It's really not hard to figure out what happened there and the way that he was an addict, right? Okay. And so now I'm also starting to understand though, that I am a codependent. This is a new thing for me to understand, but I don't know why I'm codependent. So I have the word, but I have no, no background or how to get out of it. So now my third partner, love bombing me is not going to work. I'm almost 50 now, right? I'm mid forties. I have been years without dating long, long time.

Darla Ridilla (12:21.397)
Mm-hmm.

Tina (12:38.67)
So this one did trauma bonding.

because the other two wouldn't have worked. I was onto them. But the trauma bonding, my gosh. my God, you have bipolar mother? I have bipolar in my family too. You were abused? my God, my mother died when I was five and my father was awful. And this and that and this and that. So we trauma bonded. And then of course, cause he's not, I'm not his first partner either. He had learned and grown. So what did he add to that?

Darla Ridilla (12:45.856)
Right. Yeah.

Darla Ridilla (12:54.41)
Mm-hmm.

Darla Ridilla (13:03.914)
Mm-hmm.

Tina (13:12.898)
this bad behavior you keep seeing inside of me, by the way, I'm a fireman and I've been to the doctor and I have PTSD. such a good excuse. Because now when he does things that I go, that's not acceptable. I go, PTSD, not his fault. He's serving his people. He's a good man. He's a firefighter. He has a stressful job. What a clever ruse that was. And I will say this. I do not doubt that there's some PTSD there because

Darla Ridilla (13:19.104)
Mm-hmm.

Right?

Tina (13:41.454)
His job is challenging and it came with challenging things and he went through challenging things. So I'm not, please don't let me negate for anyone out there that's a police officer, a firefighter and nurse. I believe PTSD absolutely comes with your job. But it was clever for him to use that because he knew I was smart. See, he knew that I had figured out my other two partners. He knew I'd figured out my mother and my father. So he had to be.

Darla Ridilla (13:57.183)
Mm-hmm.

Darla Ridilla (14:02.955)
Mm-hmm.

Tina (14:06.74)
my God, and yet all he had to do was trauma bond and I was right there with him because of course he applied to my empathy, right? God, I was smart.

Darla Ridilla (14:14.368)
We just want to fix them. I've referred to the personal improvement project. And they do all, like I think of the three I was with and all of them, I call it the gimmick. It's that line that you talk about, the first one, he was extremely good looking and charming and very, very, very much a love bomber. I mean, they all were. The second one was a brain cancer survivor. And so he, the empathy, like, you poor thing, you're living in this horrible circumstance. Come live with me, you can't live here.

Tina (14:25.944)
Yep.

Darla Ridilla (14:43.198)
And then the third one, I love to travel like I did and then kind of appealed to that. Like, I'm going to take you on this trip. And friends are seeing all these wonderful pictures. We're having this great time on Facebook. They didn't see the fight that happened 30 minutes before where I was like, where the hell did that come from? What is going on here? They didn't see all that. Yeah.

Tina (15:04.681)
even amidst your worst pain, you can hold up a camera and go smile. And everyone goes, gosh, her life is perfect. And they don't know that for 24 hours and the rest of the minutes of that hour as well, we're miserable. You can smile on social media and everyone thinks your life is perfect and it's terrible. We're doing a terrible disservice to each other because we're so busy trying to be each other and yet none of us actually have it all together. That's the reality. We don't.

Darla Ridilla (15:28.224)
We don't. No, that is so true. there's this moment of growth, but also this moment of like you talked about it, like, OK, I'm now going to protect myself and I'm not going to say I love you first. And it's a process, though, because while you had to go through it, you're getting better, but you're still making mistakes. But at the end of the day, did you find that with each one, you did do just a little bit better, but because they came at it with a different approach than you had like,

Tina (15:47.79)
Mm-hmm.

Darla Ridilla (15:57.558)
a new tactic to file in your brain like, this one's tactic, I'll remember that for the future.

Tina (16:06.762)
Yes, and yes to all of that whole line of thing because even as a child with my mother, I was paying attention. I was incredibly astute. I'm an empath as well. So I feel everything and I feel what they're feeling. I feel what they're feeling, which worked against me when I didn't have control. I, you know, now I, now it's on my side because I know how to control my empathy. But, now it's such a valuable tool. I see the beauty in it.

Darla Ridilla (16:14.922)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Tina (16:32.174)
But with them, of course, it was so easy to get my empathy, first of all, because I'm an empath and I could feel their pain. And this is really, my God, this messes with you. But with my parents, my mother was a master manipulator. But what that taught me, I'm not going to lie, was that I am a master manipulator. Why? Because if I wanted to get anything as a child, I had to manipulate to get it because I wasn't getting it.

Darla Ridilla (16:53.247)
Yeah.

Darla Ridilla (16:57.398)
Tina (16:58.894)
Right? And if I needed to go out and do something or I wanted to go see a friend, I had to become the world's best liar or I wasn't going out. So because they were so controlling. So I became an incredible, I'm an incredible liar. I'm not going to lie. I'm an incredible manipulator. I am. I don't because I choose not to, but if I'm called upon, I can. In fact, so much that I went and did a degree in theater because I thought I'm pretty damn good at this and I get a whole degree in theater. Yeah. And did theater for years. So.

Darla Ridilla (17:19.05)
Right. Right.

Darla Ridilla (17:25.494)
Mm-hmm.

Tina (17:29.998)
So, but I understood that they manipulated us for gain and that. I was always like, I could manipulate you, but I don't and I don't want to, right? It's not nice. Why? I know what it feels like. But so then with the next one, I don't think there was manipulation there. I was madly in love with him. That's it. Nothing was going to not make me in love with him to be fair. I was, you young. The second one. my God. Master. Even.

Darla Ridilla (17:40.872)
Right, right.

Tina (17:59.49)
better than my mother because he's an addict. His whole life is about lying. And what was his job? Of course, he's a salesman because he was a timeshare salesman because he's amazing at it. He was amazing. And damn, you throw in that French accent and that all my partners were gorgeous, by the way. Gorgeous. You throw on that gorgeous face and that French accent. my God, this guy could manipulate anybody. But the greatest lesson, and I think I did put this in my book.

Darla Ridilla (18:04.968)
Mm-hmm.

Darla Ridilla (18:09.291)
Thanks

Tina (18:28.974)
was I actually, when we moved to Mexico, I was forced to sell timeshare as well because he was spending all our money and we were broke and this whole big thing happened and he had ended up having to go home to go through rehab. But he left me in Mexico as collateral at the job because the job paid the airfare for him to go home and go through this program. So they were like, well, you're going to have to pay back the money. So you go home for a month to go through rehab, but Tina has to stay. She's the collateral.

Darla Ridilla (18:34.176)
Mm-hmm.

Tina (18:57.3)
and I'm stuck in Mexico by myself with no money. Anyways, yeah, so for him. But when I went to work with him for the first time to learn how to become a salesman, which I did for a couple of months, and I watched him from start to finish manipulate a family into buying a timeshare, my mouth was on the floor because I just went, my God, you're brilliant. That was brilliant.

You could sell ice to an Eskimo like this guy was so good. But it also made me go, if you're manipulating them like that, you are manipulating me. You're an addict. I know you're a, I knew he manipulated him. I wasn't an idiot, but I, the degree to which he did it was like, God, you're good at this. But every time I learned, he did too. He learned I was learning. So he, that's just it. I was always playing catch up.

Darla Ridilla (19:38.037)
Yeah.

Darla Ridilla (19:51.872)
Say adapted.

Tina (19:53.344)
I adapted. Now, when it came to the third one, no, I was all over that. Manipulating me? No, he could not manipulate me. But, well, no, that's not true. The manipulation was, I react badly sometimes because I have PTSD. That was the manipulation. It was an outright lie, right? But did I learn? You bet, because I left him the second I realized he was bipolar.

Darla Ridilla (19:57.942)
Mm-hmm.

Darla Ridilla (20:11.943)
Yes.

Tina (20:20.108)
I did not stick around. I did not make excuses for him. The minute I realized, my God, and boy, that was a gut punch moment. Let me tell you, when you suddenly realize what the warning bells that have been going off in your head for six months, eight months, nine months, and you finally sit down and go, something's wrong. And I sat down and I wrote a list. Now you don't do that unless there's a problem, right? Like the minute you make a list about your partner, pros and cons, we are already in dangerous territory. So I was already starting to go.

Darla Ridilla (20:44.086)
Holy.

Tina (20:49.87)
I won't live like this. You have been moody for six months now. So yeah, it's not just moody now. This has become your mood. So and that mood includes criticizing the heck out of me. And that's what was so familiar. The criticism criticism criticism criticism. Love bombing turned to criticism. Well, no, sorry, this wasn't the love bomber. But you know, at least nice things were turned, you know, compliments over my meal that I cooked for him turned into so salty. And you're like,

I mean, what's all in it, you know, or whatever, but.

Darla Ridilla (21:19.83)
Right, right, right.

Tina (21:22.446)
I knew I wouldn't tolerate that behavior. And yet another six months of me going by trying to figure out what the behavior was going, is this just a minute? Is this going to? No, this keeps going. Oh, wait, he's back. No, he's back to. Oh, wait. No. And then you just go, yeah, no. And I did really even say the words. No, I've played this game before. I will not play it again. Also, I suspected he was an alcohol.

and that was a big thing for me because I promised I'd never date another addict again. And that was probably one of our biggest arguments while we were dating because I would see all the drinking and he'd say, of course, well, it's because I'm with you and we're having so much fun and it's so good, right? But then it also became, I'm drinking because I had a really bad day at work. So there was, it was never just I'm drinking. There was always an excuse attached to it, which was interesting, but also it just got worse and worse and worse. And so then I would say, man,

Darla Ridilla (22:08.022)
Mm-hmm.

Darla Ridilla (22:12.246)
Mm-hmm.

Tina (22:18.144)
I am so in love with you, but my boundary, and I didn't have many back then, I have lots now, but I can see now that I didn't have many, my boundary is that I will never date an alcoholic again or an addict again. It doesn't matter how much I love you. It doesn't matter. I know where this goes. So yeah, I think I did. And so then he wouldn't drink for two weeks and I'd go, you're not an alcoholic.

Darla Ridilla (22:27.478)
Alright.

Darla Ridilla (22:34.699)
Right.

Tina (22:44.522)
You cannot just drop drinking for two weeks if you're an alcoholic. So then we'd go back to life and it would get out of control and I'd go, you're kind of drinking a bit too much, right? like I, I thought the warning bells were all around the drinking. The drinking was a big part of it because that was the addict that I was reminded of, but it was actually everything else. And the drinking was almost masking it, making it the one, one thing I thought was the problem. Yeah.

Darla Ridilla (23:01.782)
Mm-hmm.

Darla Ridilla (23:13.332)
It's the symptoms. So I was married to two alcoholics. One of them was a narcissist, one wasn't. And what I discovered, particularly with my last husband, is that when he stopped drinking, and I had the dry drunk, if you're familiar with that term, he was so darn angry. And he didn't deal with the reasons that he drank in the first place. The drinks and the drinking and the drugs were just the coping mechanism. But the real problem, and I...

Tina (23:28.973)
Mm-hmm.

Tina (23:38.946)
Exactly.

Darla Ridilla (23:41.31)
out of, you know, I won't go into that out of respect for him because actually I am on good terms with him. I don't communicate regularly because we're not together anymore, but he had a very abusive father and I had some very bad experiences with his own father, which actually was part of the reason we broke up as well. But he didn't deal with that. He didn't deal with his anger. He didn't deal with the abuse he experienced as a child, which was the reason he drank.

You know, and with narcissists, too, there's more of a manipulative factor to that, too, because there's no accountability. There's this I can do whatever I want, and you have nothing to say about it.

Tina (24:22.146)
I think there's very many degrees because I've been listening to some psychologists lately because all my experience with narcissists is learned, right? It is experience. And I have a lot of experience, not just a family growing up in and then the three major partners that I dated.

Darla Ridilla (24:27.763)
Mm-hmm.

Darla Ridilla (24:31.381)
Yes.

Tina (24:39.328)
Even my girlfriends were narcissists as it turns out. I eliminated so many friends over the years. It was actually a big running joke that all I did was remove people from my life and it was crazy. When I worked on cruise ships for all those years, you're constantly saying goodbye to people because we're all on different contracts and man, people would break down and cry when their friends are leaving and I'd be like, love you, bye. And they're like, how do you not get emotional? And I'm like, you have no idea how many goodbyes I've said in my life.

Darla Ridilla (25:02.902)
Yeah.

Tina (25:04.398)
Because even as a child, like literally moved every year. It was a new school every year. Like we were never stable. So it was never a thing for me. Then I became like that. But it's funny as well that you just said, I dated one addict who was a narcissist and one who wasn't because my narcissist is the one who said to me, all addicts are narcissists. It's the nature of the beast.

Because if you're willing to lie and manipulate to get what you want, you are not thinking about other. Yes. It doesn't mean they're like severely narcissistic, but I heard this in an AA meeting, I think, or something like that when someone said, all addicts are narcissists. The addict said this. Whenever my guy did like to go to meetings, he would make me come with him, which I didn't think was, I didn't understand that that was also a bad thing.

Darla Ridilla (25:32.022)
That's interesting.

Darla Ridilla (25:36.096)
It's a narcissistic trait by any means, right? And there was lying.

Tina (26:01.998)
In the first six months, I would go with him because it made him go first of all, and he was like, I just need support. I was like, of course I'm going to support you, right? Then when I started to understand that, oh no, I'm not supposed to be there, I stopped going. Yeah, but I think that's where I heard that.

Darla Ridilla (26:16.098)
Yeah, yeah, every once in a while is fine. if you're exactly, well, he doesn't have to do his work because they're not going to talk. If you're there, they're not really going to authentically share. They're going to hold back. And so then that gives him an excuse not to work on himself. I don't want to give away too much of the book. I'll let that up to you how much you want to share about the book. But you did mention that you were in a cult as a young child. How do you think that also affected your future relationships?

Tina (26:21.539)
Yeah.

Darla Ridilla (26:45.674)
or your parents were in a cult. Yeah, I don't...

Tina (26:45.89)
God. Yeah. So energy is energy, right? We're all made up of energy. We have our chakra system. And I just think it's really important for people to understand, especially if you don't understand the way energy works, is that the law of attract, this is the law of attraction. You don't get what you want in life. You get what you are. Right? So if you're very, very broken,

Darla Ridilla (27:08.616)
Yes.

Tina (27:13.23)
you attract broken people into your life. And narcissists are broken. They're just broken in a different way, but they are broken. So when you heal, you only attract people into your life that have the same frequency in their body, which means they've worked on their healing too. So you get a better grade of friends. Just meaning they've worked on themselves, right? Like a higher vibration is what I mean. Not a better grade, you know, cause I don't want to, I didn't want to, sorry, I didn't want it to sound like that. So the same thing goes with your partners and just life in general. So.

Darla Ridilla (27:30.676)
Right.

Tina (27:42.444)
If I'm a child being raised in a home full of narcissists, it is only normal that they would be drawn to a narcissistic religion. Because I think religion is just a whole lot of narcissism. I'm sorry, I know it's gonna upset a whole lot of people. I do not think it's all bad. Right? I'm so over it. Because I'm sorry, who's gonna start a religion where everybody gives you the power? Because it's not about God most religions, it's about...

Darla Ridilla (27:53.12)
Mm-hmm. Yes.

Darla Ridilla (27:59.484)
let it upset them. I'm right with you.

Tina (28:12.238)
person in charge of that, taking all the money and all the glory and all the whatever. If it was about God, I'd be more on board to be honest, right? Like there's wrong with God. There's nothing wrong with Jesus. Jesus is fabulous, you know, was fabulous. It's what people have done with the message that is wrong. Just so I'm very clear here. So it is not surprising then that my narcissistic

Darla Ridilla (28:14.132)
Yeah, right.

Darla Ridilla (28:19.412)
Right, right? Right.

Darla Ridilla (28:28.426)
Yes. Yes.

Tina (28:35.758)
You know, to be fair, I don't know that my father is actually a narcissist. I think he was just so controlled by her and wanted so much that he just became like her. But when all three of us girls left home and he realized what he'd done, my father lived with regret for the rest of his life. Now you see, there's the difference. And he desperately tried, although he could never apologize because that's just baby boomers. Baby boomers, it's not in their wheelhouse. It wasn't part of life to apologize, right? It's hard for them.

Darla Ridilla (28:54.58)
Yes.

Tina (29:04.973)
So he never apologized and I never got closure, but he did spend the rest of his life trying to be kind, trying to hug me. And I'd be like, oh God, don't touch me. It was way too late. Should have led with the apology. It might've gotten somewhere. But you see, my mother never changed. She's still like that. So narcissists don't have regret and they don't, you know what I'm saying. So this is where I don't want to call my father a narcissist because I don't think he was, to be fair. He just did terrible things. But...

Darla Ridilla (29:05.142)
Mm-hmm.

Tina (29:36.206)
What was the question? I did it again! I was right there and it just left. Something's wrong with me today. I swear. My brain. It's so funny.

Darla Ridilla (29:38.038)
it was about, that's okay. No, that's okay. I do it all the time when I'm the guest. So it was about how do you think that your parents being in a cult affected your future relationships?

Tina (29:50.286)
Yes, of course, of course, the church. Yes. So for them to be drawn to a church like this in the first place when they hadn't gone to church in 10 years, whole cult like church was very narcissistic. Meaning here's the rules. You must obey them. God is not about love. He's about fear. Right? So this is where I say it was a church that was fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, mongering.

Darla Ridilla (29:59.766)
You're right.

Tina (30:18.226)
So we just lived in fear. So our whole vibration was fear. mean, and then you have a home that's already full of fear and they've just been given permission by, you know, the preacher, the church, religion, God, whatever, all of it to be fully narcissistic, to be completely the way that they are. Because of course they would very, very much preach going straight to hell if you didn't obey the rules. It was all fear, right? And it was all separation and isolation. And it was all

Darla Ridilla (30:18.23)
Mm-hmm.

Tina (30:48.302)
because we weren't allowed to communicate with anyone who was not part of that church. So this is where this just isn't a church. This is the whole thing, right? Like, this is like, you're not supposed to talk to anyone who doesn't go to church.

Darla Ridilla (30:55.882)
Right.

Tina (31:01.23)
And then of course, spare the rod spoil the child. So you've just given them permission. So it does not surprise me that they fell into a religion like this because it just boosted their narcissism and sent it flying through the end, put the dogma behind it. So me fast forward, I leave home at 16. I don't want to hear anything about religion ever, obviously, right? I'm so anti-religion, but then I start to many 10 years or so later, learn about spiritualism.

Darla Ridilla (31:04.15)
Kyle.

Darla Ridilla (31:14.475)
Yes.

Darla Ridilla (31:21.856)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Tina (31:29.248)
And it wasn't until I had my spiritual awakening really that it all sort of came full picture to me. And that didn't happen until I broke up with my third partner in my late forties when I had my spiritual awakening and wrote this book. my parents don't go to that church anymore. They also had an aha moment and stopped going about 10 years after I left home, which just as an FYI, because I thought that was.

And they started going the same way they stopped. One day they went to church and just went, oh my God, we love this, we're born again Christians. And then one day my father came home and went, I don't think we should go to that church anymore. I think they were a little crazy. And that was it, they didn't go anymore. Right? Bizarre. Bizarre.

Darla Ridilla (32:08.256)
Whoa, that's, it is bizarre. And I agree with you because I've had a really bad run in with religion. If there's someone that resonates with them, that's fine. I'm not knocking that. But for me, was the hellfire and brimstone. wasn't as much, it wasn't as strong as your upbringing was where we were allowed to associate with people outside of the church. But we can't dance where my mom was, she supported it. She tried to set up, like I went to the Christian school for six years.

Tina (32:18.798)
Mm-hmm.

Darla Ridilla (32:35.228)
And so she tried to set up like a little prom. no, we can't have dancing. That's a sin. But my daughter takes dance lessons. We have cheerleaders. What's the difference? She never understood that. But there was no question. Yeah, it was very weird. I think it was kind of pick and choose, according to what I pick and choose, not what you do.

Tina (32:46.454)
that's interesting.

Darla Ridilla (32:54.326)
There was also a lot of wealthy people there. And so in fact, this is something I'm working with with my intuitive coach right now, is removing that energy block to money because I see money coming from mean people. And so I've had to block that because I was treated badly because I was poor. When I was dating my first husband, I was a teenager. I met him very young. And I have to give him credit because he actually is the one who's got me to start thinking critically about religion. And that's a gift that I have had the rest of my life.

Tina (33:05.954)
Mmm.

Tina (33:21.326)
Mmm.

Darla Ridilla (33:23.262)
And he would go to my youth pastor and ask him questions. you know, I just, and he would start to, the youth pastor would get angry, but he's just asking a question. Why are you so threatened by that? If, you know, I used to say that to my mom, if you're, if I went to, when I went to New Orleans, I did a tour with that Concrete Meeting of Voodoo Priest, priestess. And my mom was like, my God, you're going to hell. And I'm like, why, it's just knowledge. I'm not going to practice Voodoo. I'm just interested in learning about it. I'm just curious. Right. Why, why is that a threat? It's just knowledge.

Tina (33:29.646)
Because you're asking questions, right?

Tina (33:52.27)
If you're, like if your whole thing is never ever ask questions, like how have we not questioned this sooner and how are more people not questioning it? Well, I think a whole lot of people are waking up and starting to question religion, which is wonderful. But for sure, if you're so solid with what you believe in, I never understood that myself either. Do not question it and do not take this scripture and this scripture and go, do you guys see that these are kind of contradicting?

Darla Ridilla (34:04.457)
Yes.

Darla Ridilla (34:19.574)
Mm-hmm.

Tina (34:19.946)
I'm not attacking, I'm asking because someone's asking me that doesn't go to church and I actually don't know how to explain this because this doesn't make sense. no, good God. No, there is no explanation because there is no explanation because it's all just a, you know, just a big, yeah. So yeah, it's.

Darla Ridilla (34:31.509)
Right.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. of the things I... Yeah, go ahead.

Tina (34:40.256)
No, that's it. Yep. I'm done.

Darla Ridilla (34:41.87)
no, one thing I was going to say is that one of the things I loved about the spiritual center that I went to in Denver is that they used to say, take what resonates with you and throw away the rest. And you don't have to accept it. And if it gets to a point where you're accepting less than you are, you're throwing away more than you're accepting, then maybe this isn't the right place for you and that's okay too. And I really loved that they took like many different religions and just pieces and there was Jesus and there was Buddha and there was Gandhi.

Ernest Holmes and I absolutely love that because I was free to think what I wanted to and I think that's so important. You know, it's interesting that you brought up that the narcissist chose the narcissist religion and it really is every aspect of when you're with them. So I was thinking while you were talking when you said the one relationship you stayed in for seven years, like I was in one for 10.

And I know why I stayed, you know why you did. But for maybe there's a listener out there who is learning about narcissism, do you want to kind of explain that dynamic and why we do stay for so long?

Tina (35:48.928)
You know, actually that's a really great question because it's kind of funny because I was just chatting with my editor, just texting or emailing my editor this morning. And she's really the one who made me really emphasize that in the book because I love a good editor because she's reading my book and she finally says to me, Tina, I'm reading your book and you're with this addict and you're with him for seven years and it is your third attempt to try to leave him. But I got to tell you,

After your first attempt, I'm already thinking, what a freaking idiot this girl is. I am not on your side. And I'm like, oh, okay. She goes, I'm a reader reading your book. I'm not on your side because all I'm doing is judging you and wondering why are you with this guy? So she said, what I'm saying to you is, I actually need you to show me why you fell in love with him because I don't get it.

So you're asking the same question. So that's brilliant, right? You're basically saying the same thing. So I had to go back and I had to say why I fell in love with him. Now I fell in love with him because he was charming, charismatic. I think we can all understand that, right? He loved bombed me, charming, charismatic, gave me everything I wasn't getting from the other one. He also, maybe TM my, but I just wrote a memoir. So you kind of know lots about me. He blossomed me, if you will.

Darla Ridilla (36:49.973)
Yeah.

Darla Ridilla (37:09.654)
Yeah.

Tina (37:14.208)
sexually and the first person to do that for you, there's a connection there. There just is. Because he was incredible. He was a sex addict as well, every kind of addict. So of course he was incredibly sexual, but he was at least good at it, right? Like he at least, you know, really did show me the beauty of lovemaking, if you will. And then I saw the manipulation in it later, but that came later because I was onto him.

Darla Ridilla (37:15.637)
Mm-hmm.

Darla Ridilla (37:27.04)
Right.

Tina (37:37.974)
I think the reason we stay is because you need to remember that the person they present to you in the beginning is so incredibly beautiful.

And narcissists are great at manipulating. So remember to this, let me give you a scenario. You go out on a date with them and they are learning about you and testing your boundaries. Those two things, that's all they care about. Learn about you so I have control and test your boundaries. So.

Tina (38:11.894)
You go out with this person and all night they tell you these beautiful things about you and you already feel good. If they're smart, they don't even overdo it because you might just go, yeah, that was too much. Right. Do know what I mean? Right. Just just just enough amount throughout the evening so you know that they appreciate that you look beautiful tonight and I like your shoes and just simple things sometimes. Throughout the evening, they're getting you to talk about yourself.

Darla Ridilla (38:24.383)
Yes.

Tina (38:39.982)
And they are making a mental list of all the things like, so tell me, Tina, when was the last time you went on a date? Oh gosh, I haven't dated in years. I broke up with my partner a couple of years ago and I just, you know, I haven't, I'm not in that head space. Oh, what happened? Oh, as it turns out, he was this, that, that, and oh God, must have been awful. We're gonna have to spend long talking about him, but he just learned something from me. My last partner never complimented me, never brought me flowers, and he treated me poorly. He's making a list in his head.

How do I get her attention? I'm bringing her flowers on our next date. Do you see what I'm saying? We give them the tools to manipulate us by telling them how our other relationships failed. So they're gonna do all the opposite things to win you over. So now they've just become the man of your dreams. That's why we fall in love with them. We give them the recipe to be the man of our dreams. They become that and then we love them. It doesn't turn south all at once.

It is really hard to look at the end game and go, how did I even get here? But someone looking at your life from the outside just goes, how the hell did you stay? I mean, that went ugly, like way down there. You're down here right now. That went ugly way down there. How did that happen? First of all, things don't change overnight. People don't go from, know, Jekyll to Hyde overnight. I mean, generally, right? I mean, we're not, we're talking about people we date that we fall in love with. I'm not talking about the psychopaths on the street. And.

Darla Ridilla (40:01.43)
Right. Right.

Tina (40:05.438)
So we fall in love with them because they become that beautiful person we've been looking for. And they step right into that shoes because we gave them the recipe. And then they slowly change. They don't change overnight. They push because when you give someone an inch, they take a mile, right? So you give them an inch. They let you get comfortable with that new boundary, which means you're letting down yours. Then they push another inch. They let you get

Darla Ridilla (40:12.875)
Mm-hmm.

Darla Ridilla (40:23.254)
Mm-hmm.

Darla Ridilla (40:28.47)
Yep.

Tina (40:33.198)
Next thing you know, have no boundaries and you're wondering what the heck just happened here, but it happened over time. The other thing they're doing is they're saying to me, I'll even just give you an embarrassing first example because it's in my book again. So I'm not going to hide from what I've done. My narcissist on our first date, we met at the beach at a nudist beach. I know it's funny, but we have one nudist beach here in Vancouver. Totally illegal. It's been around since the 60s. It's still here because everyone loves it. I haven't gone since the 90s, but I meet him at this beach, this person and

We just have this wonderful first meeting and then at the end of the evening, he's like, hey, we're all going camping tonight. Do you want to come? And I'm like, no. And I love camping. I'm a huge camper. And he says, well, you told me you loved camping. Why wouldn't you come? And I said, because I came to the beach today. I have a bikini. I have a strong purse. Like, that's all I've got, right? towel. I'm like, you know, when you go camping, you have to actually have like

warm clothing, foods, know, those kinds of anyways. No. Well, how about if I will stop by my house? I live five minutes from here. I'll get you some warm clothes. OK, well, I also don't have any money or any food. You know what? We'll stop by. We'll pick up some pizza. No problem. At the time, I was a smoker. I also don't have any cigarettes. I got an extra pack. So I was throwing out excuses not to go. And he was just refuting each one. It was funny. It was charming. It was romantic. Right. No, it wasn't.

Darla Ridilla (41:57.942)
Right in a moment. Right.

Tina (42:00.974)
He was testing my boundaries. So then I was like, oh wait, I'm having lunch with my sister tomorrow. Boom, he pulls out a cell phone when people didn't even have cell phones. I'm calling my sister going, hey, so I'm gonna go camping tonight. Do mind if we don't have lunch tomorrow? And so my sister's going, what, are you crazy? You just met this? And I'm like, bye. And I hang up. Now we go camping, we go up there. There's like 12 other people. It's not like I'm going into the woods with a man alone. I'm not that stupid, right? I'm not a stupid person. There's like 12 people going, this huge hippie commune. So we all go up there.

sleep with me. I'm not sleeping with you. just met you. I'm dying to sleep with him. I'm not going to lie. I haven't had sex in ages, know, years. Of course I want to sleep with this gorgeous hot thing, right? We're high on mushrooms. And I'm like, no, just because he was so sure of himself. And he was like, what? I was like, no, you're too cocky for me. No, no, no. Said it. No, no, no, no, no, no. What happens? I go to bed with him. That night. What has he just learned about me? I have no boundaries. I said no, but then I kiss, I let him kiss me.

Darla Ridilla (42:37.029)
Right?

Tina (42:59.424)
I said no and I went camping. I said no and then I did it. I said no and then I slept with him. He has just learned on one day, my narcissist has just been given the tools by me, by the way, how to manipulate me, how to control me. And he just tested my boundaries. So now he knows I'm a good partner for him because he's already controlling me and I have no boundaries.

Darla Ridilla (43:27.03)
100%, I have found two very consistent things. They've all been very good looking and I think part of that is they are so ugly on the inside, we wouldn't be attracted to them otherwise. And the other thing is, right? Because all three of them have been very good looking. also, oh shoot, now my thought went out of my head. Right? No.

Tina (43:37.07)
True story.

Tina (43:48.485)
god, I'm so glad it's not just me, because really my brain is like, fuck.

Darla Ridilla (43:55.05)
What was the other thing that's very consistent? the intelligence part that you mentioned. So like the first one, I was actually married to my first husband and we were in a bar and he was ignoring me. here's the ironic part. I realized my marriage was in trouble. And so I wanted to get some advice. So I picked a female friend and a male friend to get advice from. Well, guess who the male friend ended up being? My future husband, right?

Tina (44:19.818)
my god. Right? You gave him, you gave him the recipe.

Darla Ridilla (44:24.5)
I gave him everything. Of course, at that time, I knew nothing about narcissism. And all I knew is that he was handsome, and I really liked him. And what ended up happening, we had, I'm still with my, and I'm not proud of this, and I'm not a cheater, never done it, but since or before or after, that we end up making out till three in the morning in the parking lots. because he knew I was being ignored, he filled that, he,

Tina (44:28.942)
No, of course not.

Darla Ridilla (44:50.932)
gave me money. Once we were together, he was giving me money and he was being charming. But you're right. He was very observant. I consider him to be malignant and extremely intelligent. I you look at all these psychopaths, the serial killers too. It's really kind of scary how intelligent they are and how they gauge people. You think of Ted Bundy when he would get these women in their car when he had no seat in the front.

Tina (45:13.218)
They do the same thing.

Tina (45:20.086)
Right? It's true because we think monsters look like monsters, but they don't. Some of them do, but some of them, most of them, 99 probably percent of them don't. They're the gorgeous guy wearing a suit that smiled at you and you're like that just helped a baby that watched a baby drop its bingy over there, what do call these things, and just picked it up and said, here you go and ran across the street to do it. Cause you saw, you know, you just go, my God, right? But man.

Darla Ridilla (45:27.19)
They don't.

Darla Ridilla (45:45.867)
Yes.

Tina (45:49.382)
you only have to do that once and I'm already with you. then, but then I remembered your question. Why do we stay? Why do we stay? Well, that's just it. You have to remember anyone who doesn't understand this or maybe who's trapped in it. We don't see the monster till it's over that you see when you're on the outside looking in, because it's always so much right. Hindsides 2020 and also looking in on someone else's life is also. We are constantly.

Darla Ridilla (45:49.792)
Yes.

Darla Ridilla (45:55.658)
Yeah.

Tina (46:19.022)
striving to get back to where it started. That's why we stay because it was so perfect and beautiful in the beginning that no matter what they've done, we hold on to that feeling of love because we don't know what love is. If you're a dating narcissist, you don't even know what love is. That's where it all started. It started in childhood, right? You are still not there. We got some work to do, right? Because that was me. That was you. We know.

Darla Ridilla (46:41.482)
Yep. Yes.

Tina (46:46.636)
So we think, my God, someone finally loves me. And that's why we stay. Because if it took that long to find someone to love me, and I'm getting older and wrinkler, you know, more wrinkled and you know, how am I ever, if I couldn't find someone when I was pretty, how am I ever gonna find somebody now? Right? So it only gets worse until you heal it. Until you heal, until you heal. Yes.

Darla Ridilla (46:59.144)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes.

Darla Ridilla (47:09.002)
Yeah, yeah, that's true. so that leads right, that was literally going to be my next question. Please share, know, so yes, how, how, how did you go from being in those relationships to now, you're not in those relationships and you're healing.

Tina (47:16.214)
Excellent.

Tina (47:26.158)
After that third one, again, I'm older and I also just like, when I broke up with that one, my thought process was something like, I'm done. Why would I ever date again? This is ugly. This is gross. There are no good men out there. Okay. So we know that's not true, right? So after I got off that initial assessment, then I started to realize that I have always been asking the question and it's a good question, but it's still not the right question.

Darla Ridilla (47:47.742)
Yeah

Tina (47:55.662)
What's wrong with all the men out there? Right? What is wrong with all of the men out there? All the good ones are taken. This is what we're told, right? All the good ones are taken. That's the problem. I stopped asking that question and I started to ask myself, no, Tina, what's wrong with you? That you are only attracted to this kind of man. What is wrong with me that I am only attracting emotionally unavailable men? What's wrong with me? So this is, that was the catalyst. So I asked the right-

Darla Ridilla (48:02.315)
Right.

Tina (48:25.358)
question and my soul took over and went, finally she's ready to heal. So after I finally left the situation, which took a couple of months, I'm a hot mess. As you can imagine, I completely shut down. had to shut down to survive that one because I was stuck in that house. So I had to really shut down because once we broke up, he was no longer even trying to pretend he became the ugly narcissist, right? For the next three months. So it was really, it was torture. my God, it was torture because I was on to him. Once you're on to them, they can't allow you to go unpunished.

Darla Ridilla (48:42.038)
Yes.

Darla Ridilla (48:48.128)
Yes.

Darla Ridilla (48:55.146)
No, true.

Tina (48:55.31)
for the next three months. More torture. So then I sought help and I went to a girlfriend and I said, I need spiritual help. I need to speak to a psychic, a channel or a medium. I don't care. I just need someone that can give me some advice. I knew she went to a lot of these things. So I wanted a recommendation. So I go to this channeler and I mean, I spew my rage. It was not pretty. I was just like, I'm so angry. I'm mad at myself for

for not seeing it coming because you're so angry you don't see it coming, right? And then here's the worst thing. Once I left and had a couple months to think about it, I did see it coming. I saw it on day one, on day one, day one. And that's why I was angry with myself. I did see it coming. I ignored it. And I made excuses for other people's bad behavior, which I do not do anymore.

Darla Ridilla (49:34.39)
Yes. Yep.

Darla Ridilla (49:47.136)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Tina (49:50.208)
So all of this is happening. then I go to see her. I'm like, I'm angry at myself. I'm angry at him. And I am pissed at the universe. And she went, she's so spiritual. I am pissed at the universe. She's like, she actually like, she was just tiny little petite little hundred pound little, you five foot thing. She was so beautiful. And you know, in her seventies, she's just this gorgeous little waif of a fairy. I just love her. And so she was like, okay. And so I was like,

Darla Ridilla (50:00.776)
hahaha

Darla Ridilla (50:10.998)
Ha ha ha!

Tina (50:19.434)
I need answers now. So I'm surprised she didn't just go, I don't think can talk to you and she left. So she could obviously see I was really broken and just really desperate. So at the end of this two hour conversation, I had a very good grip on a spiritual level of what was actually happening. And so I walked out of there understanding karma. It's not like I hadn't heard of karma, but I had a misconception. And I think most people do have karma. had a really good understanding of it.

Darla Ridilla (50:27.958)
Yeah.

Darla Ridilla (50:33.814)
of what it was.

Tina (50:49.332)
I had a really good understanding of generational trauma and man that was vital for my healing, for my forgiving, because it's hard to forgive and you need to, we cannot escape forgiving. So you need to understand a little bit of what's happening to find the grace to forgive them sometimes, or maybe you don't, but I think the harder the trauma, the more it is to forgive, right?

Darla Ridilla (51:11.605)
Right.

Tina (51:12.462)
The general issue of trauma was a huge piece for me. And then understanding our soul mission anyways, to come down here and learn life is a school. We chose these things. So I had to learn to forgive myself for choosing these crappy situations to learn. I had to forgive my parents, obviously, and everybody else that came with it. I had to forgive my soul. I had to forgive so many things. I had to forgive myself, right? Like there was just these layers and...

Darla Ridilla (51:21.408)
Yeah.

Tina (51:41.558)
At this point, I was so desperate not to repeat the pattern. I did not resist at all. I was ready. Whatever she told me to do, I did not question it. I did it. And I'm so glad because she didn't, I knew she wasn't leading me astray as long as she asked me to do weird things. You know, so at the end she was like, so at the end of this, you will be writing a book. And I was like, I'll be doing what now? Right? I've never written anything before. So I was like, I'm doing what?

Darla Ridilla (51:48.788)
Yeah. Right.

Darla Ridilla (52:08.842)
Wait a minute.

Tina (52:11.086)
left field, right squirrel? Talk about squirrel. And so she says, you know, you're a great storyteller. I said, okay, I'll give you that because I've always been a storyteller. I've always been a public speaker. So, you know, I am a good storyteller. So she's a great storyteller. So it's just going to be a natural thing for you to turn this into writing. But what's really important is that as you're writing, it'll become clear to you what happened in your life. You'll connect the dots and you will heal.

you will go through your own healing and it will be beautiful. So if there's no other reason to write the book than that, it's worth it because I'm worth it. I didn't think that at the time, but I sure do now. Also, if you're going through it, imagine how many other people are out there living it and they will learn from your

mistakes and also from your lessons and your experiences and you're going to help them. And that was the driving factor, knowing that I could help other people and that I could maybe have them suffer as long as I did or, you know, at all would be great, but it's not really how it works. and, and that's what happened. I sat down and I said, well, you know, I just thinking off the top of my head, I was like, you know, I'm thinking of going to Thailand or maybe Bali.

in a couple of months, maybe I'll start writing while I'm there." And she's like, yeah, you're going to Bali. I was like, okay. And I did. That's exactly what I did. I went to Bali because she told me to. Because for me, Thailand or Bali, I didn't care which one. I would have just gone to the next one the next year, right? So I went to Bali and then my spiritual awakening happened and my healing really began. And I met the next teacher who was going to really kickstart this into crazy land in a good way because I did heal and I did forgive.

And through forgiveness, I've put down stronger boundaries. So do I ever speak to my mother anymore? I don't. But do I hate her? No. Do I wish bad things for her? Even a tiny bit. In fact, I have so much empathy and love, not love, love because I love everybody, right? But you know what I'm saying. But I have so much empathy for my mother because to be honest, the way I see it now, yeah, she's caused a lot of pain.

Darla Ridilla (54:15.24)
Right, I do.

Tina (54:23.448)
She's also been in a lot of pain and she's never ever, ever known happiness for one day of her life. She's not happy. She's not actually gaining anything by hurting other people. It's her desperate way to try to find happiness, but she's so far gone from it, she doesn't even know, right? Because, yeah, that empathy factor isn't there, right? That's what's missing from narcissists is the emotions.

Darla Ridilla (54:25.312)
Yes.

Darla Ridilla (54:44.918)
Yeah.

Darla Ridilla (54:51.042)
Totally, they cannot change. They are, in my opinion, not capable of it. That is the beauty of that we can. While unfortunately, we have experienced just a fraction of how much hatred they have within themselves, but we at least have the ability to heal from that and they don't. And while it's hard to have empathy for a narcissist, at the other hand, I understand why they are that way. I get it. I don't condone it.

Tina (55:18.306)
Yeah, they're broken too.

Darla Ridilla (55:21.11)
I'm not a place where I do want to forgive the other person, but I do need to let go of the anger, the resentment. I need to forgive my previous self because I can't move on unless I do that. If there's someone out there that's in a toxic relationship now, what would you recommend? What would be their first step to get out or to start investing in themselves or whatever it is that they need to do? Yeah, go ahead.

Tina (55:46.158)
Before I get that, I'm gonna, before I get to that, I'm gonna put a tiny pin in that. You might have to ask me that question again, because we've already learned that my brain is fried today. Narcissists can heal, just so you know. Because I've asked this question, I've asked this question, because I'm really curious, because we've all come here to learn and to grow. So how can a narcissist not heal? Do you know what I'm saying? Like for me, I was like, how does it work? So I'll do it quickly, because it's a big conversation, but.

Darla Ridilla (55:54.228)
Yeah, it's okay.

Do you think so?

Darla Ridilla (56:01.812)
Yeah. Yeah.

Darla Ridilla (56:13.291)
Yeah.

Tina (56:14.634)
People who allow narcissists to, who lack boundaries. Okay. We have problems with our power chakra. It's just not strong enough because it's just a big mess of childhood garbage, right? So our power chakra is a big hot mess. Well, it's the, so that's your solar plexus chakra, your sacral chakra where you stand in your power, a narcissist. So ours is very underdeveloped. It's why narcissists prey on us. Theirs is incredibly overdeveloped. In fact, it's so incredibly overdeveloped.

Darla Ridilla (56:23.446)
Mm-hmm.

Right. Yeah.

Darla Ridilla (56:38.39)
Mm-hmm.

Tina (56:43.394)
that what happens is it's become a black hole and a black hole sucks everything in the universe into the black hole. And so that's why when your heart chakra is up here, they're not ever able to feel anything or anything because everything gets sucked into the black hole. Does that make sense? So for a narcissist to heal, they actually need to bring their chakra back into balance exactly the same way we do ours.

Darla Ridilla (56:59.466)
It does.

Tina (57:09.624)
has no structure, not no structure to it. Sorry, we have no boundaries, which means that we're not standing in our power. It means we have a really underdeveloped chakra. Narcissists have an incredibly overdeveloped. We both have to work on our chakras to get better. Ours is just way easier. It is really hard to close that black hole. That's the problem. It can be done. It's really hard. They're gonna have to work with a teacher for a long time.

Darla Ridilla (57:40.182)
I'm still going to be a little skeptical. Just from a scientific standpoint, just to play devil's advocate for a minute. Yeah. So they have, as far as their brain, like their brain is actually not hardwired to be able to do that. Their prefrontal cortex right here. Something really traumatic happened, really traumatic as a child. So they actually did not develop that ability to do that. It's kind of like not being born without a leg and not being able to grow it. So it's a different perspective.

Tina (57:45.344)
Yeah, no, that's why we have these conversations, right?

Darla Ridilla (58:09.674)
for sure, very different. Yeah, it's something to think about, but I'll admit I'm having a hard time with it.

Tina (58:09.996)
Mm-hmm. Yep. Mm-hmm.

Tina (58:22.04)
I know it's the spirituality versus the science, right? But we're mind, body and spirit. Yeah. I don't know how many narcissists ever actually succeed. and the reason I know this is cause the same channel that worked with me, she has worked with, for example, addicts who've tried to get rid of their addiction. And it's the same thing. It's, the same chakra issue, right? So, and

Darla Ridilla (58:26.133)
Right.

Darla Ridilla (58:36.277)
Mm-hmm.

Darla Ridilla (58:45.32)
interesting.

Tina (58:46.612)
So and she's the one who explained it to me and said, no, I work with these people. And she said, and I can tell you, it's really hard. And most of them don't succeed because they can't. You can. But all I'm saying is it's not hopeless. Right. We are never brought down to this planet and gone. no, it's going to just go that way. And you can't change it otherwise. Why? That's why we're here. Right. We're here to grow our souls and to. So, So anyways, that was the I just want to do that little side thing because I did learn that about.

Darla Ridilla (59:12.885)
No, that's fine.

Tina (59:13.866)
narcissist but then you did actually ask a specific question which I totally don't remember.

Darla Ridilla (59:18.058)
Yeah, so that was if someone is in a toxic relationship, what would be their first step to go ahead and get out of that relationship?

Tina (59:26.252)
Mm-hmm.

Tina (59:31.596)
We're really...

just a bit lost when we get caught in these relationships, right? And then the longer they've gone on and the more we've been manipulated, we just get lost, right? You know, we're lost to begin with, but we become more lost. It's really hard to think straight when you're in that relationship. And it's why it also makes it really hard to leave because we just don't have, and they're never gonna give you a moment to think straight because that's the manipulation they ever gave you, time to actually think through your life. You would leave, right? So.

Darla Ridilla (59:42.954)
We do.

Darla Ridilla (59:48.256)
Mm-hmm. Yes.

Darla Ridilla (59:57.173)
Right.

Tina (01:00:01.154)
Please know that your narcissist is never gonna assist you in leaving, right? Also, please know it will never get better. Let's just be really clear about that. It only gets worse. So if you think you're in this relationship, you probably are.

Darla Ridilla (01:00:06.4)
Never.

Tina (01:00:21.742)
You need to go. Now, this is not a straight answer because I'm going to appreciate women who are in incredibly violent situations. Okay? Let's put those aside for a minute. People like yourself, myself, just in a bad relationship, it's time to go. Go. There will always be an excuse. Money, a big excuse. And please know your narcissist knows that.

Darla Ridilla (01:00:34.006)
Yes.

Tina (01:00:47.16)
Don't think they don't take control of the finances for a reason or encourage you to not, maybe not work so much, because I can take care of you, okay? My narcissist did that to me too. So just go, please just go. If you don't have the strength to do it yourself and don't tell your narcissist you're leaving, no, you need to pull a Katie Holmes, okay? You think she was ever allowed to leave Tom Cruise by announcing that she was leaving in Scientology? No.

Darla Ridilla (01:00:55.958)
Mm-hmm.

Tina (01:01:14.42)
She masterfully behind the scenes without ever showing her hand, put together a plan to get out there. Sometimes that's what it requires depending on the degree because children are a different factor. If you don't work and he holds the finances, there's so many things. All I can say is there are so many things. Remove all the things. You.

will never be happy when you're with your narcissist because they can't let you be happy. And their whole thing is actually the whole reason energy, uh, narcissists need someone to, to, to torture is because they're stealing your energy. It's just about energy. It's just a massive vampire energy grab. So if you're tired all the time and drained all the time, this is why. So they will never help you leave. Don't even tell them you're going, make a plan and then just go.

Just go. And if you need support, call someone. Don't be embarrassed about your situation. We have been there. Do not be, your shame as well as what controls you. And they know that too. They know that. So please never, never, never feel shame for what has happened to you. There are so many of us out there and we're with you and we support you. And we're here to tell you, it does get better. My life is amazing now. I'm not rich.

I'm still single. I don't have a crazy good job. None of that matters to me. I don't care. Do I want those things? Of course I do. I'm a human, but I don't care. My definition of my life is amazing. I wake up every single day and I am not afraid. I wake up every single day and I'm not worried who's going to trigger me. my God, how am going to react to that trigger? I'm not triggered anymore. It's crazy how amazing that is, how calm and grounded I am.

You've been taught not to love yourself. That's what it boils down to. And it's hard to just choose to love yourself. It takes a process. Take just one step, just one step. Just leave. And the rest will come. The rest will come. I promise it's better on the other side. I promise.

Darla Ridilla (01:03:25.984)
That was beautiful and so, so beautiful. Just perfect, I think. It really encapsulated what it's like, for sure. I kind of flashback to 2013 as you were talking about that. Is there anything else that you want to share today?

Tina (01:03:30.38)
No, thanks.

Tina (01:03:42.54)
Whoops. I am writing my next one. Actually, I just finished the next one. Yeah, it was always when I was told, you please, you you'll write this book. She did say to me, you're going to heal as you write. So take notes. Take notes of what you did, what worked, what didn't work, how you felt like really, because you will write a second book and it will be a workbook to offset this one because

Darla Ridilla (01:03:48.714)
Yay. cool.

Tina (01:04:12.076)
I'm sorry, but if I'm really broken and I'm going to a book, right, and I'm reading about how someone in the end finds forgiveness for someone who was so abusive, you just go, okay, yay. Now, how, how did you get better? How? Because obviously it would be a long book if I walked you through how I healed. The book is about the pain, right? And sort of how it concludes with me, yay, I found the healing. So this next workbook is, or this next book is just a practical diary style.

Darla Ridilla (01:04:31.552)
Mm-hmm.

Tina (01:04:41.87)
journaling style, if you will, workbook because I really did take notes in the four years that I went through my own spiritual awakening and blacked out and know, nicked the soul and did all my healing and the things that worked. That's the thing. There's so many self-help books out there, but if they weren't first of all written by someone who's been through it, don't buy their book. I'm sorry. You got to go through it, right? Why are you taking advice from someone who hasn't lived it? So

Darla Ridilla (01:05:04.246)
Right. Right. I agree.

Tina (01:05:11.629)
Take advice from someone who's lived it, but also someone who you can see that they're thriving on the end of it. Right? Like if I don't want to hear about healing from someone who still not doing so good, unless they just started, right? But then they shouldn't be teaching, right? They're still doing so if that makes sense. So my next one will be a really practical workbook. One of the biggest things when I was growing up is I just, I don't know about you, I think we're close to the same age, but just, felt like some, well, therapy is really what.

Darla Ridilla (01:05:18.228)
Right. Right.

Darla Ridilla (01:05:27.595)
Yes.

Tina (01:05:40.854)
It was back then, it was just, you went to therapy. It was something rich people did. We couldn't afford therapy. Who could afford therapy? Wasn't covered by medical or anything. And so we just didn't go, right? So could have used some therapy. There was even moments where I could even admit that I needed therapy in my life, but I still couldn't afford it. And I always felt like healing was something rich people did. So when I wrote this, I very, very much was going through 2020 and 2021.

Darla Ridilla (01:05:45.536)
Mm-hmm.

Tina (01:06:10.798)
Okay, that's when I wrote this book, 2020, 2021. I think I need to tell you what happened then. I work in tourism, so I lost my job. I had no money coming in. I don't live with anyone. So I was so isolated. Even worse, I was journaling about my horrific relationships in past. All I was doing was dredging up demons, so to speak, know, bringing up, living with my demons, right? And I didn't know who to turn to or how to get help and...

Darla Ridilla (01:06:31.839)
Right.

Tina (01:06:39.33)
When people did show me ways to ease out of this or I would meditate and spirit would drop something on my head, it meant everything to me. And it meant everything to me because it didn't cost me anything either. Cause I thought, how am I supposed to heal now? I did Reiki with that girl that one time and then I couldn't do it again because I couldn't afford it. I saw the channeler one time. I couldn't afford for almost two years to go back to her. It was a year before I went back. So it's not like I had these people just feeding me. It does not cost money to heal.

Do not let that stop you. I made sure everything in my next book and all this is available on YouTube. Don't wait for my book to come out, right? Like said, no one ever said no author ever, but like, please, please, right? So please go find your healing. Don't wait for mine to come out, but it doesn't need to cost you money. And that should never be a deterrent. Therapy is amazing. Reiki is amazing. Channelers are amazing. But if you can't afford them.

Darla Ridilla (01:07:19.456)
haha

Right.

Tina (01:07:36.366)
Please don't let that be your excuse not to heal. We all deserve to heal and healing is free. Go to YouTube, listen to some really good teachers out there and get started. Just do it, do it for you, I promise it. just, gosh, right? You know the other side just feels so, gosh, so good. It is worth it.

Darla Ridilla (01:07:56.616)
It's worth it, 100%. It was ugly in the beginning. I mean, it still gets ugly at times. The beginning was the worst for me for sure, because there was a lot of realizations. But I will say, you're so right. is definitely worth it. And I had to do the same like three years ago when I went to a free support group on meetup.com. And there's so many free resources out there, your YouTube channel, your things that are coming out. Definitely don't make that the excuse, because...

What you're lacking in money, you're paying for in way more other currencies for sure, and you're healing. right? Yeah. Yeah, I was just thinking that money gives you options, but it doesn't buy happiness and it doesn't give you freedom, that's for sure. Yeah. So, where can people find you? We'll put social media links as well and anything else you want to share in the show notes, but tell me, tell,

Tina (01:08:30.584)
My gosh, right? Yep.

Tina (01:08:41.816)
Mm-mm.

Darla Ridilla (01:08:52.574)
everybody where they can find you.

Tina (01:08:55.494)
I have an author's website, so that's the best place to come because everything will just be on one site. It's called SovrnandSage.com. SovrnandSage.com. The links to the podcast that I go on are there, so I'll put yours up there when it airs, as well as the links to where to buy my book. And once the next book is ready, which is going to be down the road a little bit, I just handed it over to my editor.

I actually was gonna have it out June 1st and I had a meeting yesterday with my channeler and she said no. I was like, okay. She said no September 1st. So I'm put, I trust her. She said, no, we want this out September 1st. So I will, I'll put it out in September. She was kind of funny actually. She's like, Tina, in the summertime, who wants to do a deep dive into their healing? They want to go outside and play. She's like, don't put it out in June. I was like, I never even thought of that. I was like, that's really smart. She's like, put it out in September. When people are ready to go inwards, I was like,

Darla Ridilla (01:09:45.344)
Hmm.

Tina (01:09:52.032)
You are a clever woman. I never even thought of that. Yeah. So anyways, but at the moment, my website, sovereign and sage.com and my memoir is available on Amazon.

Darla Ridilla (01:09:54.582)
true. Yeah.

Darla Ridilla (01:10:05.846)
Thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story and sharing your experiences. I really appreciate you being here today.

Tina (01:10:15.278)
thanks, Darla. I really appreciated you having me on here. And, you know, we kind of started this podcast journey together a couple of months ago. So it's good that we're finally on a podcast together.

Darla Ridilla (01:10:23.636)
We did. We did.

I love it. I absolutely love it. I've really enjoyed our conversation today. And to the listeners, you have the power.