77: Divorce Doesn’t Create the Problem — It Reveals It With Mardi Winder-Adams

Divorce doesn’t create the problem.
It exposes what’s already been there.

In this episode, I sit down with divorce coach Mardi Winder-Adams to talk honestly about what divorce actually reveals — especially for high-achieving women who have spent years holding everything together.

We talk about:

• Emotional loneliness inside relationships that aren’t “technically” abusive.
• The pressure women face to keep the family intact while excelling professionally.
• How divorce brings hidden dynamics into the open — emotional unavailability, financial control, high-conflict behavior, and the unspoken expectation that women should carry it all without falling apart.

This is not a conversation about blaming men or glorifying divorce.
It’s about clarity.

Divorce shines a spotlight on patterns that were already present long before papers were filed. It reveals where emotional labor has been one-sided, where access to information or power has been uneven, and where a woman has been quietly minimizing her own experience to keep the peace.

We also talk about the real costs of divorce — emotional, financial, physical — and why clarity often comes with consequences. Not because a woman failed, but because she stopped pretending.

This episode is for women who are single, married, divorcing, or simply questioning what they’ve been normalizing in their relationships.

Divorce is not the end of a woman’s life.
For many women, it’s the moment the truth finally comes into focus.

Connect with Mardi Winder-Adams:

Website: https://www.divorcecoach4women.com/

Connect with Darla Ridilla:

3 Keys to Magnetizing Emotionally Available Men masterclass: https://www.highvaluewoman.info/masterclass

Book a Magnetic Connections Call: https://www.highvaluewoman.info/call

Website: https://www.highvaluewoman.info

Send me an email: highvaluewoman7@gmail.com

Sign up for mailing list: https://www.highvaluewoman.info/newsletter

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61550835718631

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/highvaluewoman7/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@HighValueWoman-m7w

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/darla-ridilla-3179b110/

Transcript

Mardi Winder (00:00)
And one of the men said to the, the,

the other man and the two women, he goes, I don't know how she thinks she's going to be able to continue to be CEO of this company if she can't even keep her marriage together. And those other three people at the table laughed and joked around about it. And I was kind of surprised that nobody stood up for her because she was pretty well liked within the organization. But I think there is that double standard that women are supposed to keep everything

Darla Ridilla (00:27)
Thank you.

Mardi Winder (00:28)
They're supposed to keep the family together. They're supposed to be the wives and the mothers. They're supposed to be also these high achieving career people. And if they can't do all of that, then obviously it's something wrong with them. And I think divorce can shine a flashlight or a big spotlight on the fact that I'm failing in something I'm supposed to be doing. I think all women feel that, but I think there's an added pressure on the, you know, people with some level of visibility.

Darla Ridilla (00:39)
Wow.

Darla Ridilla (00:54)
Welcome to You Have the Power, the road to truth, freedom and real connection. This podcast is for women who are done asking why emotionally unavailable men keep showing up and are finally ready to change the way they relate. If the chemistry is always there, the potential looks promising, but the consistency, depth and emotional presence just never fully arrive. You are in the right place. I'm Darla Ridilla I'm a relationship and self leadership coach for women.

And this isn't about fixing yourself or dissecting your past. It's about recognizing where you've been over-functioning in connection and choosing something different. Here, we work through the magnetic connections pathway, presence, agency, empowerment. Because emotionally unavailable men aren't the problem, they're the feedback. And when you stop managing relationships that require you to disappear, emotionally willing men are magnetized to you. Let's begin.

Darla Ridilla (01:49)
Before we get into this conversation with Mardi, I would like to say this clearly. If you have ever found yourself thinking, he's not abusive. So why do I feel so alone in this relationship? This episode is for you. This conversation sits between my episode on discernment and the upcoming episode on access. And that placement really matters because discernment is not something that's soft or inspirational.

and it's definitely not comfortable at times.

Discernment is the moment when a woman realizes she's been doing most of the emotional labor in her relationship. She's explaining, accommodating, and waiting. And then she's calling it love. Especially with emotionally unavailable men. And it's when you stop saying, this is just how he is, or at least he's not abusive, or maybe I'm asking for too much.

Because once you see the pattern, you don't get to unsee it. I have been married and divorced three times, and one of those marriages was abusive, but the other two were not. line in all of them, and honestly in every relationship I've ever had, was emotional unavailability.

The non-abusive relationships still cost me myself. They still required me to over function, over communicate, and lower the bar on what I actually needed to feel met. And this is where so many women get stuck. Emotionally unavailable men don't always look dramatic or even dangerous. And sometimes they can appear responsible.

successful, or quote unquote fine on paper.

that's exactly why women stay longer than they should. Divorce is hard, especially when there's children involved and when finances are intertwined. And especially when you know the moment you stop accommodating somebody else, you're going to be labeled difficult, unreasonable, or maybe even selfish.

But this is where access changes.

When a woman raises her standards, not in theory, but in real life, not everyone keeps access to her. And sometimes that includes a husband. And that doesn't mean that divorce is the goal. it also doesn't mean that divorce is a failure. It means clarity has entered the room.

I've talked openly about the financial costs I paid after I divorced my abusive ex-husband. I had to file for bankruptcy. And it was humiliating. It was something that I did not want to do. And it wasn't something that I wanted to admit that I had done.

But it was the cost of my freedom and it was worth it. And I'm sharing that because I know what it's like to live inside of these decisions. And I also know what it's like to stand on the other side with peace, clarity, and absolutely no desire to go back.

conversation isn't based on a concept. It's coming from lived experience and how I learned to apply discernment. And this is where the magnetic connections pathway becomes real.

Presence is being honest about the emotional availability or the lack of it and the relationship that you're in.

Agency is realizing you're allowed to want more than crumbs, even if the man you're with isn't that bad. Empowerments is holding your non-negotiables without bargaining with yourself or waiting for permission. And magnetic connection, that happens when you stop abandoning yourself to keep a relationship intact. This conversation with Mardi is not about telling women to leave.

It's about naming the truth. It's about understanding the emotional, financial, and psychological realities that show up when a woman stops making herself smaller to keep a man comfortable. Divorce is not the end of a woman's life. For many, it's the moment they stop lying to themselves. So as you listen, notice what lands. Notice what makes you uncomfortable.

And notice where you might be rationalizing emotional unavailability because leaving feels harder than staying.

Darla Ridilla (06:42)
Well, welcome back to You Have the Power, the Road to Truth, Freedom, and Real Connection. So today we're gonna dive into one of the most difficult and most life-changing experiences a woman can go through, divorce. And let's be real, divorce, doesn't care how successful, polished, or put together you look on the outside. It has a way of knocking the legs from under you. So my guest today knows this better than most.

So Mardi Winder-Adams has been a family and mediator for many years, helping thousands of people navigate high conflict breakups. She's certified divorce coach, author and host of not one, but two podcasts, Divorce Coach for Women and Undoing We. And she brings something rare to the conversation. She's not only seen it from the professional side, she's lived it herself.

Marty's passion is helping high achieving women, women who have their careers together, but find themselves unraveling in their personal lives. Navigate divorce with clarity, strength, and a plan for what comes next. So if you've ever wondered how to protect yourself in a high conflict divorce, avoid the mistakes that cost women the most, or even how to begin rebuilding when everything feels broken, you're in the right place. Well, Marty, welcome to the podcast.

Mardi Winder (08:05)
Thank you so much, Darla. just, so enjoy listening to your podcast episodes. have such a variety of guests and I love your solo episodes as well. They give a lot of insight in a very difficult time.

Darla Ridilla (08:17)
thank you so much. I'm going to record one right after this. So thank you. Thank you so much. I'm so excited to have you today. ⁓ Divorce is something that I haven't, I I talked about my own experiences, but I'm really thrilled to have you to from a coach's perspective to talk about that. So why don't we just start with your story and what you feel comfortable sharing about your own experiences and how you got into this.

Mardi Winder (08:44)
Sure. And I try to be as open and transparent as possible about this. Although my personal take is the details of your divorce story don't really matter like what triggered it, but as a coach, my role is to help you get through the tough stuff in So my story goes back over 30 years. I got married, I would say later in life. I mean, I was in my late 20s when I got married. ⁓

married a great guy. He was fun. He was entertaining. We did, you know, the weekend going out to the bars and having fun and doing all this kind of stuff. And about three years into the relationship, it was just really obvious that, obvious to me, that we weren't on the same path. And it's not that one of us was on a better path than the other one. It just, we weren't on the same path.

And so I made the decision about 18 months after going back and forth, should I divorce, should I not divorce? Things happened. Tensions got strained or relationship got strained in that time. And I just made the decision that I was going to file for divorce. 30 years ago, the first thing you did was went and got a divorce attorney and a colleague of mine had just gone through a divorce. And this is up in Canada, but the, you know, the,

Darla Ridilla (09:40)
Mm-hmm.

Mardi Winder (10:09)
The overall process is very similar to anywhere else in the world. colleague of mine had just gone through the process. So she said, hey, I've got this great attorney. He was a great attorney. ⁓ And I lucked out because he was, but the second the attorney got involved, everything just blew up. Like things just got really crazy. ⁓ We didn't have kids.

I was the moneyed spouse. should have been a relatively simple process of dealing with this. And it got so high conflict, Darla. And I can remember thinking to myself like, what the hell is going on here? Like we were normal people before I said the word divorce. And we probably, know, but mediation wasn't really a big thing then. And, and the weird thing is I was going through my training to become a family and divorce mediator right when this all happened.

So I didn't want anybody to know. I tried to keep things very private. I was also working in a school district. I didn't want them to find out what was going on. And all this kind of led to me creating, instead of creating a network of people for support, I completely isolated myself. ⁓ several things happened that, again, the details aren't important, but what came out of it was a...

what should have been a relatively simple divorce process ended up with friends getting involved, protective orders, like you name it. It just went like from zero to a thousand. It seemed like overnight. And considering we had no kids or anything, it was an extremely costly divorce even 30 years ago. being a divorce mediator, working through all this, I worked for a while as a domestic violence client advocate when I moved down from Canada to Texas.

And I just thought there has got to be a better way to support women. Cause I was running into the same situation. Even as a mediator, people were not prepared for mediation. And as the mediator, you have to be a neutral in the room. You can't give advice. You can't coach. can't do any of that stuff. So, ⁓ my second husband had a massive stroke in 2010 and I quit everything to become his full-time caregiver.

And that's when I got really interested in coaching. So I did my executive and leadership coaching at that time so I could work with people virtually as, and thankfully I was prepared when COVID hit, but I also went and did my certified divorce transition coaching training, which really helped me to start focusing in on supporting high achieving people that were coming to me for coaching on the executive level, but it was really relationship stuff and chaos in their lives that was ⁓ creating the problems at work. So.

Darla Ridilla (12:34)
Thank

Right.

Mardi Winder (12:55)
That's a really long story, but that's how I ended up getting to where what I'm doing now.

Darla Ridilla (12:59)
Yeah, and we need mediators because ⁓ during my second divorce, I actually didn't hire an attorney. I probably could have used one, but I also knew that it would have escalated everything. So what I did is I basically took a huge financial hit just to get out without having to rack up a bunch of bills.

Mardi Winder (13:20)
Well, and you know what, even 30 years ago, I went against my attorney's advice because we had a property and then we had an investment property that we were using as a rental property. And I remember my attorney encouraging me to fight tooth and nail to maintain both of those properties. But I already knew I ⁓ wasn't staying in the family home, I'm putting that in quotes. And I certainly didn't want the rental property because I didn't want the responsibility. So I was happy to just give the, you know,

Darla Ridilla (13:42)
Right, right.

Mardi Winder (13:50)
give my partner at that time, my spouse, the rental property. He just assumed the payments on it. And I, you know, my attorney did not want me to do that, but we could have sat there and fought for years over that property, I think.

Darla Ridilla (14:04)
Yeah, sometimes it's not worth it. I mean, for me, I felt like it's just money. It's replaceable. My emotional health and getting out of this marriage quickly was far more important to me than any amount of money that I could have gotten out of it for sure. Yeah.

Mardi Winder (14:21)
Well, and

it's not just even the money, Darla. I don't think women in particular understand the emotional drain and the stress and the impact even on your physical health. mean, there's a lot of research that says that women that go through divorce have higher risk of certain kinds of heart conditions, have an increased risk of certain types of ⁓ like sleeping disorders, depression.

Darla Ridilla (14:24)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mardi Winder (14:47)
⁓ anxiety, all of those things, the longer you stay in those high stress states, the greater your health risk is.

Darla Ridilla (14:55)
Yeah, that's for sure and and if I remember correctly ⁓ you do specialize in high-conflict divorce Which some people would say that's narcissistic, but I know that you prefer the word high high conflict Would you like to share a little bit more about that?

Mardi Winder (15:09)
Sure. I think this is because I want to be really careful. I think the word narcissistic and narcissism and narcissistic personality disorder and all this, that is a clinical term. And just because somebody is an ass or just because somebody wants, know, going through the divorce, everybody all of a sudden becomes, this is mine. They become very protective and they become unreasonable and difficult to deal with. That doesn't make them a narcissist. ⁓

You know, can be a very selfish person and have tendencies like that, but you're you're not, you know, meeting the criteria under the, is it? DSM five now they're up to. So I think, I think it's really important. And, and I've been, I worked in a psychiatric hospital for several years ⁓ as one of my, one of my many roles. And one of the things I found out is that a lot of these personality disorders kind of fall into what's called that cluster B.

Darla Ridilla (15:48)
Yes, it's a five.

Mardi Winder (16:04)
So it's, you know, there's a whole bunch. It's not just narcissism. There's borderline personality. There's schizophrenia. There's, you know, a whole bunch of schizoaffective. There's a whole bunch of ⁓ diagnoses that go in there. And unless you actually have something from a medical, from a mental health professional or medical professional that says this is the diagnosis, it's not the diagnosis you're fighting. It's their behaviors and their reaction and their instability.

Darla Ridilla (16:04)
Mm-hmm.

Mardi Winder (16:32)
⁓ that you're dealing with. So I think putting a label on it as one specific, like mental health condition belittles or negates the real challenges that some women are facing, some people are facing. Women can be narcissistic as well or toxic as well. So yeah.

Darla Ridilla (16:49)
It can be narcissistic as well. Yes.

So true. And I will say that divorce can bring out the worst and even the best person that is the furthest thing from a narcissist. I think that's a very wise way to handle it because I know like my third while we didn't involve attorneys and it ended up amicable at the end, in the beginning, it got ugly. And he was not a narcissist. There's just no way. And yeah, because

I don't even my first divorce, I think was the quote unquote easiest ⁓ with children in a house, still there was conflict. There was tension.

Mardi Winder (17:27)
And I think you've really hit on it that when, you know that old saying, hurt people, hurt people, I think that does come into play. And especially if the other partner didn't want the divorce or despite how many times you said, look, this is not working for you, for whatever reason, they didn't hear that. And they feel blindsided by, you know, suddenly being served with divorce papers or suddenly hearing, ⁓ by the way, I've hired a divorce attorney. When people hear that,

Darla Ridilla (17:34)
Mm-hmm.

Mardi Winder (17:58)
they can get really defensive. And ⁓ we have to, I think, be a little bit empathetic with that. ⁓ If the shoe was on the other foot, how would I feel if all of a sudden this was just dropped on me? And it's interesting because as a divorce coach, I work mostly with women, but I've started to work with men as well. And what I'm hearing from the man is I know, you know, I don't...

I didn't even know there was anything wrong with our relationship. Like I thought we were pretty solid. You know, I knew we were having some difficulties, but I thought we were pretty solid. And I want to clarify, I never worked with a couple, but then I work with women who say, you know, I told them 700 times that this was not working for me anymore. And he still says, I never had this conversation with them. So it's so interesting to see the two different dynamics.

Darla Ridilla (18:54)
It is interesting. was thinking about that Mars and Venus book. Maybe she said it, but she didn't say it in a way he could hear it.

Mardi Winder (18:58)
Yes!

Right. Right. And I

think it's interesting because I think, and particularly for women, we anticipate that if our spouse truly loved us, they would know what we meant when we say, I'm fine, or that's fine. You know, that's one of those big ones, right? And we expect people to intuitively know what we need to feel loved and cherished and appreciated in a relationship.

Darla Ridilla (19:18)
Yes.

Mardi Winder (19:30)
without ever saying it out loud. You know, it's just kind of they're supposed to figure it out. And ⁓ again, nobody's to blame. Relationships, all relationships have a risk of falling apart, not just marital ones.

Darla Ridilla (19:44)
Yeah, that is that is absolutely so true. have you seen any specific patterns with these high achieving women? Do you think that there's more of a pattern with them than other other women? Or is it just pretty much the same for everybody?

Mardi Winder (19:59)
think, I mean, there's some elements sort of the same. do think with, particularly with women that are in like C-suite, upper level management, our CEOs, our team leaders, especially if they're in a mixed gender workplace, or a lot of my clients are in primarily male dominated workplaces and they're like managers. I think that

there is a tendency to want to ⁓ keep all your personal stuff private and not let any of that come into the workplace. I don't know if I told you this story, Darla. I was working with a very high achieving woman. She has her own company. It's a big company. And I had been called in to meet with her in her office. We were doing an in-person coaching session. It just happened I was in

I was in her city, so it worked out really nicely. And I was waiting for her. was sitting in the break room and nobody knows who I am. I've never been to the workplace before. And there's two men and two women who are obviously part of the executive, because this was like the executive break room. And we're sitting, I'm sitting there and I'm kind of listening to what's being said around me because I heard her name. And one of the men said to the, the,

the other man and the two women, he goes, I don't know how she thinks she's going to be able to continue to be CEO of this company if she can't even keep her marriage together. And those other three people at the table laughed and joked around about it. And I was kind of surprised that nobody stood up for her ⁓ because she was pretty well liked within the organization. But I think there is that double standard that women are supposed to keep everything

Darla Ridilla (21:52)
Thank you.

Mardi Winder (21:53)
They're supposed to keep the family together. They're supposed to be the wives and the mothers. They're supposed to be also these high achieving career people. And if they can't do all of that, then obviously it's something wrong with them. And I think divorce can shine a flashlight or a big spotlight on the fact that I'm failing in something I'm supposed to be doing. I think all women feel that, but I think there's an added pressure on the, you know, people with some level of visibility.

Darla Ridilla (22:05)
Wow.

That makes sense, because I certainly felt like I failed all three times, ⁓ even though the second one I realized later was the best thing that could have ever happened to me. But if you're in a high visibility, ⁓ high pressure environment where people are kind of scrutinizing you, I think it's kind of sad that there was this opinion that because personal lives and career lives can be so different in their dynamics that

Mardi Winder (22:49)
Right.

Darla Ridilla (22:50)
that they were one in the same.

Mardi Winder (22:53)
Yeah. And I do think there's a lot of pressure in society as a whole. Everything is so polarized right now, not to get into politics or anything like that, but everybody's got an opinion on everybody else's life, right? ⁓ Just look at Facebook. Somebody lets their kid ride a bike without a helmet. It's like the earth is going to stop revolving right now because of how

inappropriate this person is. And so, you know, I, I try not to get involved in it, but it's hard not to when you see comments like, I can't believe she's leaving him. There's, know, there's nothing wrong. He's a great guy or she's a great girl. Why is he leaving her? And you know, it's just everybody's opinion now.

Darla Ridilla (23:40)
Yeah. And when these women are going through this, where they're getting that judgment, or they're getting that pushback, how do you help them through your mediation process?

Mardi Winder (23:49)
Well, and again, so one of the things I'm able to do with divorce coaching as opposed to the mediation is I'm able to sit with them on an ongoing basis and really take a deep dive into number one, what has changed since they've been in this toxic relationship? Because we all know whether the person, the partner is a narcissist or not,

they've chipped away at your self-confidence, they've chipped away at your ⁓ capacity to make decisions, you've been told you're stupid, you don't know what you're talking about, you're just kind of a waste of space. So many times that your confidence and your competence is really low and then you're being forced to make all these massive decisions during a divorce. So I really work with my clients.

I never tell my clients what to do. It's entirely their choice. But we sit down like, what do you want? What do you need out of this divorce? What's your bottom line? ⁓ What are you willing to negotiate? What are the non-negotiables? How do you want to set up a co-parenting plan or a parenting plan if you've got children? So really get into the minutiae, the details with my clients on that so that when they go to their attorney,

They're really clear. They say to their attorney, this is what I want. This is what I'll settle for. This is what I'd like to get. This is what I want included in the co-parenting plan. And they really feel that they have that level of confidence and they know they have that level of confidence.

Darla Ridilla (25:22)
Yeah, have you ever seen a time when you've coached a client and they actually didn't get divorced and they actually worked it out? Right.

Mardi Winder (25:30)
I do, I do. Now it's not very often because typically

when people get to me, Darla, they're already into the divorce process. And all of a sudden they realized, my God, like kind of like I did, this is not going to be simple. I need a little bit of extra support, but I have had clients come in that got like, that kind of came to me at that contemplative point, like should I go through the divorce or not? And ⁓ you know, we've worked it through and we've talked about it. And I,

Darla Ridilla (25:54)
Mm-hmm.

Mardi Winder (26:00)
think I've had probably over the last 10 or 12 years, think I probably had maybe about 10 couples decide to, women decide to go the reconciliation route and try to work on their relationship. And of those 10, all 10 of them did end up staying with their partner. So I think that's, but that wasn't based on me. They just work with me to make the decision they wanted to stay.

Darla Ridilla (26:26)
yeah, no.

Mardi Winder (26:26)
so I did see

something in mediation. So I was mediating the case and this couple went through, I don't know how many hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees, because they've been going at it for a couple of years. They got to mediation, they were sitting down, they had paid for a full day of mediation and they each had two attorneys with them. So this day of mediation was probably costing them each at least $10,000 easy. And we got about six hours into it.

And finally, the husband looks across the table at the wife, because they were still married and said, you know, I know we've had a lot of differences, but I've come to realize how much I really do miss having you in my life. And she started crying and she goes, I'm so happy you said that. I felt the same way. They ended the mediation and they walked out. Now, because I was a mediator, I don't ever know what happened to them, but ⁓ that was a first for me. The one and only time that's

of a deviation.

Darla Ridilla (27:24)
Wow.

Wow. That's crazy. Which leads right into my next question. Not only is divorce costly, you talked earlier about money isn't the only cost. There's that mental health, the physical health. But this is what I found, that every time I got divorced, I financially took a hit. And I think that's common with women. We suffer more financially from the divorce than the men do. And I got not poor, per se, but a little bit less cash flow in my life.

How do you help women through that?

Mardi Winder (27:56)
Well, sure. So I want to, I completely agree with what you're saying. ⁓ Nobody makes money through divorce. And that's, you know, there is a misconception that men come out of it, way ahead of women. It really depends. And I think now with more women having really good paying jobs and perhaps being the breadwinner in the family, that's actually reversing in some, you know, with some of the couples that are going through this process. But

Darla Ridilla (28:24)
Mm-hmm.

Mardi Winder (28:26)
everybody is going to end up paying for whatever legal services. ⁓ know, so many people now have mortgages where they're upside down. They have student loans. Like none of that goes away just because you go through the divorce. And now you've got the same amount of income supporting two households paying for all these additional expenses. So everybody's going to take a financial hit. And so the first thing to do is to really make a decision.

Darla Ridilla (28:50)
Mm-hmm.

Mardi Winder (28:56)
What, where can you pair back your budget? Cause most of us have things on our budget that we don't really need. know, streaming services, maybe you don't need four or five. Maybe you can get by with just one of the streaming services. And I know that's maybe like 20 bucks a month, but you get five, know, I, know some people that have eight or nine different streaming services they're paying for, you know, a couple of hundred dollars a month. You start pairing that down.

Darla Ridilla (28:59)
Thank

Yeah.

helps.

Mardi Winder (29:23)
You cut out a Starbucks coffee a day that starts, and I'm not picking on Starbucks, any fancy coffee a day. You know, if you make your lunch, and I know that's not, you know, but even a couple of days a month, if you make your lunch and you don't spend 10 or $15 for lunch, all of these little things can help. And sometimes simple things, making the decision, do you need to?

Darla Ridilla (29:31)
All right. Yeah.

Mardi Winder (29:50)
Do you need to have a car? You know, if you live in a major urban area, maybe you don't need to have that extra car payment right now. Maybe you could public transport and Uber or Lyft or whatever you got in your area when you do need to go someplace else. You know, maybe you can carpool with somebody else. There's strategic ways, but the biggest one is make sure you limit the amount of time with your highest paid professional in your divorce, which is typically

Darla Ridilla (29:58)
Mm-hmm.

Mardi Winder (30:19)
your attorney. So really structuring, number one, do I need to talk to my attorney about this or am I just looking for somebody to vent to? And then really having a strategic plan when you go into or when you get on the call or when you're texting or however you're communicating with your attorney, keeping those questions very precise and very specific so that you're not burning a lot of billable hours or minutes or time blocks. ⁓

Darla Ridilla (30:20)
Mm-hmm.

you

Mardi Winder (30:49)
getting questions answered that you could easily find through a quick online review or through a divorce support group or through a divorce coach or some other much lower cost professional.

Darla Ridilla (31:05)
Yeah,

very, very good advice. When I only had an attorney once, and I really did try to minimize it because he was expensive, but there was a house and a child involved. And I actually felt like I should not be getting this divorce without an attorney in that circumstance.

Mardi Winder (31:23)
was going to say, Darla, I always recommend that my clients consult with an attorney. So even if they're doing a mediated settlement and they're not having an attorney, I still encourage people to go and buy an hour of attorney time and have an attorney just review the settlement. Because it's not what you know about the law that's going to cause you problems. It's what you don't know. ⁓ I just had a conversation with a friend of mine.

Darla Ridilla (31:28)
you

me.

I don't know.

Mardi Winder (31:48)
who they went through the divorce and they said, okay, this is how we're gonna divide the ⁓ 401k. This is how we're gonna handle the pension plan. They had it all written out. They signed off on the mediated settlement agreement. And then they went to a Quadro attorney to get the Quadro, the qualified domestic relation order to actually split up the 401k. And the plan manager goes, well,

Darla Ridilla (32:13)
Mm-hmm.

Mardi Winder (32:15)
You can't split this 401k. That's not the way that this works. So now they've got to go back and redo their whole mediation settlement around that because there's no way to split it. They either have to wipe it out and then pay the penalty for pulling it out early, or they have to leave it in and he is going to own it. So he's going to have to find another way to compensate her. So these are the kinds of things that an attorney probably would have caught.

Darla Ridilla (32:39)
Mm-hmm.

Mardi Winder (32:44)
⁓ that they didn't catch. And again, as the mediator, you can't tell people, hey, you're not, you know, this is not going to be right because that's not your, you're not there to provide legal advice.

Darla Ridilla (32:51)
Right.

Darla Ridilla (32:56)
me talk to you for a moment, because this time of year, when Valentine's Day is everywhere, makes pretending harder, and it brings the gap into sharper focus. You might be single, watching everyone else post roses and reservations, and telling yourself you're fine. While feeling that familiar mix of disappointment, envy, and what am I missing?

or you might be in a relationship and instead of feeling prioritized, you're managing your expectations, hoping he remembers, hoping he shows hoping that this year feels different, hoping that you don't have to remind him it's Valentine's hoping that you're not the one making the reservations again, and hoping

He doesn't minimize it, says it's just a hallmark holiday or complains about the money. Well, you quietly swallow the feeling that this matters to you. And here's the part that no one says out loud. It's not the holiday that hurts. It's the pattern it exposes. It's the constant question in the back of your mind. Why does this feel so hard? It's the energy that you keep pouring into something that never quite meets you. And it's that

Quiet exhaustion of being the one who cares more, hopes more, tries more. Single or partnered, the experience is the same. You're in connection, but you're alone inside it. so if Valentine's Day has you feeling restless, frustrated, or done pretending that you don't care, hear this.

Nothing is wrong with you, but if you keep choosing from the same version of yourself, you'll keep recreating the same dynamic. Different man, same outcome. And inside this masterclass, I walk you through how to stop choosing from hope, chemistry, or potential, and start choosing from clarity, self-respect, and what's actually there.

This season isn't about being chosen by someone else. It's about deciding how you are going to relate going forward. This is why I created the masterclass called, Three Keys to Magnetizing Emotionally Available Men. This masterclass is available now for only $27. You'll find the link in the show notes. Let this be the year you stop choosing potential over reality.

Darla Ridilla (35:21)
one of the things that I don't know if it was the right thing or the wrong thing, but my first divorce, I'm the one who left. And I had a daughter, she was 12 at the time. And I was trying to minimize the effect on her as much as I could. And so I let ⁓ I didn't fight to have the household and everything split up immediately. I wanted to give him some space to heal wanted my daughter to have a home. But a couple years later, I started to notice he wasn't taking care of the home. And

Thank God I acted on that because he ended up stopped paying the mortgage later on and foreclosed. And I was, my name is off it. Do you ever come across those situations why you don't tell them what to do? What's your sense? I was feeling guilt and it was more about my daughter than him. Do you have, had a situation like that?

Mardi Winder (36:10)
situation where, so I don't know if this is fairly similar Darla, but I've had several cases where women have been advised by their attorney to take the home in the divorce. And then they made the assumption that they could assume the mortgage and the mortgage was non-assumable. So what it meant is they then had to qualify for the mortgage because they were not earning enough.

qualify for the mortgage, they couldn't stay in the home because they could no longer pay the mortgage. They couldn't even get a mortgage to pay, let alone. So when the six months or whatever they had set up had run out, these women were then forced to sell the home. And because it takes a while to sell a home, there was no mortgage on the house at that time. So the bank came in and took it over and she

both of the women that I know ended up in foreclosure over this deal. but again, it's kind of related to what you were saying. think they wanted to do what was right for the kids and with mom staying in the home with the kids, that seemed like a good idea. And in both cases, I honestly do not believe that the spouse realized the position that...

that mom and the kids were going to be put in because, you know, this, this wasn't a case where he could have simply kept paying the mortgage and had his own place. I mean, there was limited funds there, but, I do hear all the time, you know, people, women in particular tend to want to do what's right for the kids. And, and I think that's admirable. I think that's great. But people move all the time and kids adjust. Like kids can adjust from moving out of the family home.

Darla Ridilla (37:32)
Mm-hmm.

you

Mardi Winder (37:59)
You know, it's not, it is tough. It's a change. It's a transition. But again, if they see mom and dad happy in two separate homes or two separate places, that's the best for the kids, not two parents staying in something where they're both unhappy.

Darla Ridilla (38:16)
Yeah, I I ended up having to rehire my attorney and force my hand basically the way the the way the divorce was written is I could actually sell it right out from under him without his permission. And so and so I ended up, you know, that conflict actually showed up a second time. Who knows maybe that was more re traumatizing because my daughter had to go through it twice.

Mardi Winder (38:37)
Right, right.

I have had a case when, now that you're mentioning it, I did have a case where the spouse stayed in the home and was going, and I'm pretty sure it was the husband as well that stayed in the home. There was, there were no kids involved, but it was just easier because the woman was going back to finish her doctorate. So she moved to a place, whatever city where the university or the college was that she was doing this. And the spouse stayed in the house.

She earned the income. And so he trashed the house while she was gone, like trashed it. So what she thought was gonna be a home that she was gonna be able to sell, say for, I'm making up numbers now, half a million dollars, it was less than half that value because of the damage he had done. And there was no recourse because she could have sued him for the money, but you can't get blood from a turnip, right? It's not gonna work.

Darla Ridilla (39:34)
Right, right. It's such,

you know, to so many, so many of us, men or men or women, divorce does really feel like the end. But I think in so many cases, it's also a new beginning. ⁓ Do you ever coach clients past the divorce once it's settled? Do you keep helping them through that process?

Mardi Winder (39:57)
I do. So it's something that I didn't do at the very beginning, but for the last probably about four years now, I have done some post divorce work. So if you've been my client, if I've divorced, know, been your divorce coach, then I will continue on with you post divorce for, you know, for about usually between three to six months just to help people get back on their feet. And I find a lot of times it is people going through what they call the gray divorce now. So that's people, you know, 50,

55 plus who are going through divorce where they'd married, maybe been married for, you know, three or four or more decades. And now all of a sudden they're on their own again. And, ⁓ so I kind of, really enjoy that post divorce coaching, but what I don't do is I don't do like the relationship coaching. If people start talking about, I'd like to get back in the dating world. I say, I have just the people for you to talk to, but it's not me.

Darla Ridilla (40:28)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Not me. Right?

That's another can of worms. I really admire what you're doing because I know it's rewarding, but there must be some level of ⁓ hearing these stories. And even though you're helping them, you're seeing people, and sometimes at their worst, how do you support yourself through this?

Mardi Winder (41:23)
You know, well, you know, because we've talked about this before, I live out in the country and I love this because honestly, I can be sitting here having an intense conversation with somebody. And when our call is over, I can go stand outside. I can play with my dogs. I can go out and, you know, walk around the pasture with the horses. I can go feed the chickens, you know, I think that I do, I do a lot of.

Darla Ridilla (41:26)
Yeah. Yeah.

Mardi Winder (41:51)
professional development on my own. I really enjoy that, whether it's reading books or whether it is taking courses. Right now I'm doing a hypnotherapy training. So when I'm finished, I'll be a certified hypnotherapist. ⁓ I just, and I'm really into, this is so bizarre because people who know me just go like, no way, that's not you. But I am really into yoga. I love yoga. ⁓ I found yoga when I was 55.

And it was after the death of my second husband. I just felt like I needed to try something new. And so my try new thing was yoga. And the first time I did it, you know, they tell you when you go into the yoga class, if you're carrying a lot of sadness, when you do hip openers exercises, you will start to cry. And I thought, this is such a load of crap. I'm in a yoga studio. I am not going to, and I did, I couldn't, I wasn't crying, but tears.

Like, and I just felt this profound, like, it's the weirdest thing, like release of stress and sadness. And so I actually went up and told the lady who was teaching the class, said, like, I thought you were a little on the wackadoo side when you told me that, but it really happened to me. And she goes, you won't, it may not happen to you again. ⁓ And so anyhow, I found yoga is really, really grounding and helpful and just being outside. That's my thing.

Darla Ridilla (43:18)
I just took a yoga class this morning. I often go on Thursday mornings. It's mostly middle-aged people in this class and we mostly do stretches and same thing hip openers and I think that's because of the age group and you hear the groans in a room like you know, but she's I love her because she's She's super sarcastic because she'll and I love sarcasm

I know your body's loving this right now, even though you aren't, you know, as we're holding the stretch.

Mardi Winder (43:45)
Okay.

And you

know the thing that's funny and why I said people that know me always go, I can't believe you're doing this. Like when I was younger, I played like competitive women's rugby on a provincial team up in Canada. I played ice hockey, ⁓ baseball, like super competitive and like I wanted to win. And so I really had to tone that down in the yoga studio because I'd be like looking at what I'm doing, what everybody else is doing and I'd be cranking it up and like.

And I finally, like at 61, so six years into this, right, I have realized that I don't need to compete with people anymore. And that, you know, so it's funny how you kind of turn life around,

Darla Ridilla (44:22)
Mm-mm.

would love to talk more to you. You have a book coming out or it already came out. I'm not sure.

Mardi Winder (44:35)
I have two books out now and I've got another one that's coming out probably next year now. ⁓ I was hoping to have it out in November, but I don't think that's going to happen.

Darla Ridilla (44:37)
Okay.

Yeah, you want to talk some more about that? What are what are they each about?

Mardi Winder (44:52)
Sure, so they're both books on divorce. The first one I wrote is called, ⁓ From I Do to I'm Done, A Woman's Guide to Preparing for Divorce. So it's really a, it's not meant to be a read from cover to cover. It's really specific chapters, how to talk to your partner about the divorce, how to talk to your kids about the divorce, what financial documents do you need to get? Because I think that's...

if you're in one of these high conflict toxic relationships, or if you're a woman who has not had access to the financial picture in your relationship. So they call that financial abuse. It's a very real thing where the partner doesn't let you know, like you don't even know what bank accounts you've got. You don't know credit cards. So it's different than just saying to your spouse, hey, you take care of this. It's literally not being provided with that information.

I was just going say, I have clients who have been put on an allowance where they get, you know, a hundred dollars a week and that's what they get. And they have to show receipts for what they purchase. That's, you know, that's an extreme level of financial abuse. But anyhow, ⁓ all the, all the documents that you need to get together, it talks about how to hire a divorce attorney, what to look for in an attorney. ⁓ Because as you know, there's all different kinds of divorce attorneys out there and

Darla Ridilla (46:16)
Mm-hmm.

Mardi Winder (46:16)
You want to make sure you get one that's in alignment with the way you like your divorce handled. ⁓ And then it goes through the different divorce professionals that you might want to add to your team. And then just some general mediation preparation strategies and how to be emotionally prepared for the divorce. So the whole process. So that's that book. again, it's just, you look at the chapters that are relevant at different stages of the divorce. ⁓ The second book is one that I am

I was so honored to be a part of, it's called The Other Side of Divorce, breakups that lead to breakthroughs. And it was, I wrote a chapter and then 17 other women each wrote a chapter, not talking about their divorce, but talking about how they turned that difficult part of their life into creating the life they always wanted to lead. So some of them went into areas of helping other women through divorce. Some of them became life coaches.

Darla Ridilla (46:51)
Yeah.

Mardi Winder (47:14)
Some of them became ⁓ hotel owners and it was just, it's just amazing, ⁓ know, how trainers, ⁓ CEOs, entrepreneurs, it's amazing how you can turn that, that challenge into something that, that really works for you as, as you have Darla, you know, turning this around. And then the book that's, the book that's yet to come out is going to be all about how to, how to talk to people in high, in,

Darla Ridilla (47:34)
Yes. Yeah.

Mardi Winder (47:43)
high conflict, high emotion ⁓ types of conversations, whether at work or in your personal life.

Darla Ridilla (47:50)
there any advice actually that you could share right now if someone is in a divorce, it's high conflict, and maybe they're that executive that they don't want to share too much, but they kind of have to, like, oh, I have to take off work for this or that or...

Mardi Winder (48:04)
Right. So if you are in a larger company, think ⁓ one of the best things to do is if you, and this is always a dicey one, so I'm not, know, everybody has to evaluate this for themselves. If you have a support person in your HR department that is a trusted support person, that's not going to be, unfortunately, you know,

not being ethical with the information you share. I recommend if that person exists, to make sure that you are upfront with your HR person and just say, you know, I'm going through this. You don't have to give them the details, but I just need, you know, I may need some extra time off. I may need to, you know, be able to flex when I'm working at home, when I'm working in the office. And that's one nice thing about that came about with COVID is there's a lot more kind of hybrid work situations where you have some freedom to do that.

And let's face it, if you're going through divorce and you're single parenting at some times, you may have to take time off. If the child gets sick at school, you may have to go. ⁓ You may not have a lot of option. So being preemptive and talking to people about that can help when you do need to make those requests a lot easier. And I think the other thing is if you don't have that person at work,

find that person somewhere else, whether it's a divorce coach or a therapist or somebody at your church or a neighbor or a friend or whoever, relative. But don't be so isolated that you try to keep everything secret. You need to have somebody that can reality check a situation for you. And if you are in a situation where you're concerned about domestic violence, you need to make sure that you have a plan to get out.

in a hurry if you have to because that is a very serious situation. ⁓ And I recommend if that is the case, you reach out to the National Domestic Violence Hotline. They've got a great website. You can call and talk to people, but make sure that you have a plan because the most dangerous time when there's violence in a relationship is when the victim tries to leave. And I don't say victim to victim to.

to label anybody, but just to make it easier to understand the person who is being targeted in the relationship. That is the most dangerous time is when you're trying to leave.

Darla Ridilla (50:37)
Yeah, for sure. ⁓ My second divorce, was very fortunate. No, it was my first one, actually. ⁓ I was very fortunate that while my other coworkers weren't aware, I had a boss who had also raised a teenage daughter alone. And so as that process started coming up, I had already built that relationship with her. And she actually would let me leave in the afternoon and go check on my daughter, who was a latchkey kid. And that was such a blessing. And I know not all the women have that. And then in

my last divorce, my coworkers, while I was pretty sure my ex was not going to get violent and he didn't, there were two of them that said, you have a place to sleep tonight. I want to hear from you after, because I was going to make them leave that day. I was going to literally say, I had drawn up the papers with the courthouse ahead of time. And they're like, if you feel unsafe, you leave. But whether it goes well or not, we need to hear from you. So yeah.

Mardi Winder (51:31)
Right.

That's wonderful. And I was going to say, sometimes your boss is that person that can be that, that, you know, that resource for you. and yeah, just, just make sure you've got somebody that's got your back. Yeah.

Darla Ridilla (51:36)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah,

for sure. And then you have your podcast, ⁓ which is wonderful. I have also listened to it. I love your podcast. But if you want to share about that as well.

Mardi Winder (51:56)
Sure. Well, thank you. And thank you Darla for asking. So I have the DSHIFT podcast, Redefining Divorce and Beyond, and that just came out with the 200th episode. So I'm really happy about that. And it's just, it's a collection of people who have expertise in supporting mostly women, but there are some, you know, most of the information applies to men as well.

people either in the divorce process or post-divorce who are rebuilding their life. So that's kind of the platform. The second podcast I have is, it's a kind of a hybrid of a podcast and a streaming show. It's on the Going Solo Network and it's called Undoing We. And so on that one, what I do is I take specific ⁓ short snips of a conversation and

Darla Ridilla (52:39)
Mm-hmm.

Mardi Winder (52:50)
kind of talk about it and then play the conversation and focus on some of the highlights that the guests brought out. So ⁓ thank you for asking, Darla.

Darla Ridilla (52:59)
You

welcome. I love it. I think it's been so good. ⁓ Even though I am no longer in that, there's always reflection. It's been six years since my last divorce, but there's always time for reflection too. There's always some nugget of something you're going to hear that's going to say, yeah, that lands for me. That helps me.

Mardi Winder (53:23)
Well, yeah, even the financial stuff, you know, I

mean, I'm single and I'm happily single. ⁓ But, know, the financial stuff that we're talking about in divorce, like how often do you actually reconcile all of your accounts and take a look and make sure, you know, you're getting the best interest rates and you're not, you know, you're not spending too, or you don't have too much money in like a low interest savings account and you could put it in a, a CD and double your, you know, just little nuggets like that. And

Darla Ridilla (53:51)
Mm-hmm.

Mardi Winder (53:51)
We can all focus on things like that throughout our lives, matter what, where in our relationship progress we are.

Darla Ridilla (53:59)
Right, I haven't done that for a while, so maybe that's something to think about.

Mardi Winder (54:03)
I was just saying there's so many services that are out there and especially for women. know, there are there's a couple of and I'm going to mention just one organization, if you don't mind that it's called Savvy Ladies, Savvy Ladies, and they are a group of financial professionals who you can call them and do a free consultation with them. They've got a great website.

Darla Ridilla (54:13)
Yeah, go.

Mardi Winder (54:27)
You know, there's so many more of these resources available that even online courses now from CDFA, Certified Divorce Financial Analysts, or, you know, wealth builders, you can take those online courses and some of them are only, some of them are free, some of them are maybe $10 or $15, and you can work through the course and understand like how a stock market works. That's still a mystery to me, but you know, things like

Things like that, we can get a lot smarter. ⁓ It's easier to learn about this stuff than it ever has been in the past.

Darla Ridilla (55:04)
is for sure because back in the 90s, ⁓ my gosh, when I was going through my first divorce, the internet was just kind of showing up at work, let alone in our home. So I didn't have that access, right?

Mardi Winder (55:15)
Right.

And the internet is great, but verify everything you get off the internet. And please, please, please do not use chat GPT to create your divorce decree or your divorce mediated settlement. have seen horror stories of this. So yeah, you can say, give me like,

Darla Ridilla (55:22)
Yes. Yeah.

no!

It can be wrong as I found out in other things.

Mardi Winder (55:42)
Give me ideas on co-parenting, you know, co-parenting plans and it's going to spit you out hundreds of pages if you want it, but just make sure it really applies to your situation.

Darla Ridilla (55:49)
Uh-huh.

If there's there's a woman out there who's either she's on the fence or she's just starting her divorce process. Do you have any advice for her?

Mardi Winder (56:03)
I think the most important thing, and it's going to almost sound like what I just said, is make sure when you are getting divorce advice that you are getting it from somebody who really knows what they're talking about. So your best friend from high school, your neighbor that went through divorce five years ago, ⁓ great aunt Millie who's went through her divorce, none of those people are good sources of divorce advice. They may be great emotional support.

Darla Ridilla (56:08)
Mm-hmm.

Mardi Winder (56:32)
You know, they may be great resources for you for other things, but make sure you're talking to people who know that the legal, the financial or the therapeutic aspects of it ⁓ rather and don't rely on free advice is not always free advice from ⁓ untrained professionals. Let me put it that way is not really worth anything and it can unfortunately lead people to have

Darla Ridilla (56:56)
Mm-hmm.

Mardi Winder (57:01)
to make some really mistaken assumptions and some really bad decisions. So always make sure you're working with professionals.

Darla Ridilla (57:07)
Good.

Yes. I mean, it's kind like my taxes. There are some colleges and places that I've lived that do your taxes for free. And a friend would be like, well, why aren't you getting that? And I'm like, because you get what you pay for. And you get free advice. It may seem great, but it's actually costing you more. I'd rather pay $200 or $300 for a CPA to do it and get a bigger return. And it's legitimate. That way, if something's wrong, I'm protected, right? So it's the same thing with divorce, I'm sure.

Mardi Winder (57:36)
You know, it's funny. It's funny you mentioned

that because when I was so I used to have a lot longer hair when I was going through college and university, we would always go to this beauty school to get our haircut because it was free there. And I remember a couple of haircuts I walked out of there with it. Please hair just grow really fast.

Darla Ridilla (57:45)
I think I think I I think think I think think think I

Yes, free is not always good in some situations, for sure. ⁓ As we wrap up, is there anything that I haven't asked you that you want to share?

Mardi Winder (58:07)
No, I think you've, I've really enjoyed this. I think that, you know, the whole idea of divorce is overwhelming and it's okay to feel overwhelmed. I think that's what I want. I would like to say is that don't ever feel bad if you feel overwhelmed because it is, it's the second most stressful experience in life next to the death of a spouse. That's what the, you know, that's what the Holmes Rehe stress inventory indicates. So it's a big thing.

in your life. So don't be afraid to reach out for help because there is support. There are people that can help you. And, ⁓ you know, if you can stay in the relationship and you want to stay in the relationship, you can make that happen. If the other partner is willing, if that's not the case, you know, divorcing well and amicably is definitely the best way. If you can, if you can create that environment, that's the best way to go.

Darla Ridilla (59:05)
Absolutely. And we will put it in the show notes. But if someone wants to learn more about you or work with you, where can they find you?

Mardi Winder (59:13)
the best places the website darla www.divorcecoach4 that's the number four women.com

Darla Ridilla (59:21)
It's been a great discussion. can't believe it's already been almost an hour. It went so quickly.

Mardi Winder (59:27)
Thank you, Darla. Thank you.

Darla Ridilla (59:29)
Yeah,

yeah, it's been great having you. Thank you so much for being such an awesome guest. Great advice.

Mardi Winder (59:36)
Well, and you're a great interviewer and I just went on and on and on. I do. I really appreciate it.

Darla Ridilla (59:40)
You make my job easy.

I love to guess the talk a lot because you do my job for me. So thank you.

Mardi Winder (59:47)
Well, thank

you so much. And like I say, ⁓ I think what you do is phenomenal too. And I know I've had you speak at an event and we've had several talks and you're just ⁓ such a resource for people who are ⁓ dealing with relationship issues. So thank you for what you do.

Darla Ridilla (59:53)
Thank

Thank you. It's a pleasure. actually really love it. So that's a good thing. ⁓ to my listeners, you have the power.

Darla Ridilla (1:00:17)
Thank you for listening to You Have the Power, the road to truth, freedom and real connection. If something landed while you were listening, pay attention to that. Emotionally unavailable men aren't a mystery to solve, they're information. They show you exactly where you've been waiting, minimizing or tolerating what doesn't actually work for you. This podcast isn't here to teach you how to manage that dynamic better. It's here to help you stop participating in it. When you lead from presence,

hold clear standards and stay anchored in yourself, the pattern changes. Not because men suddenly become different, but because you do. If this episode moves something in you, like it, share it and subscribe so you stay connected to what's next. You're not asking for too much. You're just done betraying yourself. And that's when emotionally willing men are magnetized to you.