Episode 86: Your Goals Do Not Need A Death Grip

The fastest way to exhaust yourself is to demand that life hits one exact outcome. We get honest about attachment and how it creates suffering, from money and success to homes, health, and the people we love most.

We talk through a simple spiritual truth (including a Wayne Dyer reminder that we come in with nothing and leave with nothing) and translate it into real life: what it looks like when you’re “death gripping” a goal, spiraling in obsessive thinking, or tying your worth to external proof. Kira shares how values work revealed a painful misalignment between chasing business success and being present with family, and we unpack why detaching from the outcome can actually bring more peace, better choices, and more sustainable growth.

We also connect attachment to healing. If you identify as “the sick person”, you may fear who you’ll be when you’re well. If you’re attached to perfect health, you can get stuck in desperation, overcorrecting with supplements, protocols, and control. We go there with parenting too: loving your kids fiercely while remembering they are their own people, and you are still you beyond soccer practice, college plans, or approval.

Transcript

Welcome And Real-Life Obstacles

SPEAKER_00 0:03

Welcome to the Heal Yourself Podcast, where we dive deep into all things healing. I'm Denise, a speech language pathologist and a self-love coach for adults and teens.

SPEAKER_01 0:15

And I'm Kira, a traditional naturopath and functional nutritionist, and we're here to guide you through the transformative process of healing your body, mind, and soul.

SPEAKER_00 0:25

From the latest in functional medicine to nurturing your relationship with yourself, healing trauma, and even transforming your money story. We're here to empower you with the knowledge and tools to create lasting change.

SPEAKER_01 0:39

So whether you're looking to heal physically, emotionally, or spiritually, join us as we explore the many paths to wholeness and wellness. Hey everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Heal Yourself Podcast. You got Kira and Denise today and an echo. I hear an echo on my end. So sorry guys. We're still, we're still not at home.

SPEAKER_00 1:01

Oh, I don't know. Uh I don't hear an echo, but maybe you hear it and maybe they hear it. I don't know. We'll eventually hear it once we uh, you know, once the episode airs. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:12

We're we're still doing an echo.

SPEAKER_00 1:15

Huh?

SPEAKER_01 1:16

I said we're still dealing with life over here. It's fine.

SPEAKER_00 1:18

I get in the girl, but we're showing up to do this. And you've been so flexible. Like, I couldn't do Fridays anymore because I put in clients there. And no, like we've been doing awesome.

SPEAKER_01 1:36

I think so. I'm gonna give myself a pat on the back.

Why Attachment Creates Suffering

SPEAKER_00 1:38

Yeah, do that, do that. Give yourself a pat on the back because we're doing great. And I think this is the perfect thing to bring up that we have the obstacles, we have the problems, we have the light that is lifing, and at the end of the day, we are still showing up and responding differently how we used to respond before, even though like it's not all beautiful at this moment. It is not, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

Um, well, my topic today, I messaged Denise and I was like, let's talk about attachment because this is something that's really been an issue in my own life. And when I say attachment, like what was this saying? The root of all suffering is to be attached. Like there's a phrase around this, guys, and I'll butcher it, and that's fine, and I'm sure I could make up a phrase. But basically, we can't be attached to things, right? Like, think about we come into this life with nothing. We can breathe, right? Like, sure, we can say we're attached to breathing, but in reality, anything else is just gonna cause suffering if we get attached to it, right?

SPEAKER_00 2:53

Oh, I mean, I mean, and you know how like it was not it's not coincidence that you wanted to talk about this because yesterday, as I was looking on Instagram, I saw a video from Dr. Wayne Dyer talking exactly about that, about the attachment, and about that we come with nothing and we leave with nothing. So I mean it's just it can't be any. I don't know what to tell you, Kira. It was it's perfect. It's literally this is what he says. Take that idea that you have to be attached to things and know that you came in with nothing, no thing, and you're going to leave with nothing, with no thing. So understand that your life is a parenthesis in eternity, life there without attachment.

SPEAKER_01 3:45

That's literally what he said. I love it. I love it.

Values Misalignment And Business Pressure

SPEAKER_00 3:48

I guess I was tapping into Wayne Dyer, but I I think you were, or maybe Wayne Dyer was tapping into you because you know, like how in the spiritual realm, you know, like it could have, you know, something that, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:59

Well, and I will also say there's been a lot of reflection. So one of my mentors is Jim Fortin, and he is running his final transformational coaching program ever. And I'm back in it for the I don't know how many rounds, seventh round, eighth round, whatever. But the first week, all we're talking about is values. And as I was sitting there reflecting, I'm like, okay, all the other times I've done this, my top value was like success. That that was my value. And I'm gonna be real and honest with you guys. My business was not at the level of success I wanted, but I was so attached to that. Like, my business needs to succeed. I need to make money so that people see me as successful, so my husband doesn't feel disappointed. So the tens of thousands we spent on business mentors isn't all for nothing. And it was just attach, attach, attach, and to the point where one of my other top values was family, but I was so misaligned because anytime I would have free time with my son, all I'm doing is, well, hang on, I gotta think about a social media post. And so I'd be jotting stuff down, or I'd be thinking about the next webinar, the next email. But if a top value was family, I I was out of misalignment, or I was out of alignment. I was in misalignment, if that makes sense. Like I was not even valuing my family, but I was saying this is a top value, but I was so freaking attached to the outcome of my business that I created my own suffering.

SPEAKER_00 5:35

Yeah, and while you're talking, a lot of like examples started coming to me. I mean, so you know how like there are many, many, many stories of people. Maybe you know them, maybe you don't know them. You see, maybe you see them on social media, maybe they're related to you, friends, whatever. But how many times have you heard of a fan, like a man and a woman adopting a child because they couldn't have a baby of their own after many years of trying, and after they adopted, she got pregnant. Right? So, what happened there? They let go of that attachment. And today I was listening to Kathy Heller podcast, and she had on the interview, she was interviewing Amy Purdy. I guess she's a para-Olimpympian. I I don't know anything about her, but she is a Para Olympian. I think she lost both her legs when she was 19, but then she was snowboarding. So, anywho, so she was saying that read and she was on Dancing with the Stars. And but a while back, I think before COVID, because after COVID and during COVID, she went through a lot of you know, more problems with her legs. And uh so she had to go like through long story short, she had to go through 10 surgeries, and she even said, you know, like that's it. Like, if my if this I'm just gonna give it a couple months after that. And she's like, if by you know, if by this month, you know, nothing is improving, then I will um I think the the result, the other outcome was to amputate above the knee. I think they were trying not to do that. So she said those few months, all she was doing is taking care of herself and she basically just surrendered that she's completely detached from it. And then she described that her leg got better and better and like like it healed by itself while just really letting go and surrendering to the just saying, you know what, I've tried everything I can, I'm just letting it go, I'm not attaching anymore. And if something doesn't happen, then I will fix it.

SPEAKER_01 7:45

Yeah. And the thing is, is these are not uncommon. Like I'm not saying that, you know, you're gonna lose your limbs, but like the job, we get attached to things, right? Like something could, and it can be something so minor. I'm not even talking about a house fire where you lose everything. Of course, that's devastating. We're attached to those things. However, I'm even talking about little things, right? Like we had this conversation about me leaving the house, and I was like, okay, okay, I'm getting attached. It's just a house. It's okay, I'll go on to another house. Or somebody spills something and messes up your favorite pair of shoes. You're attached to shoes, but we create such a level of suffering in ourselves when we attach to these things.

SPEAKER_00 8:34

Truly.

SPEAKER_01 8:35

Absolutely, and we but we've gotta learn to let it go.

SPEAKER_00 8:39

We've gotta learn to detach from them and just remind ourselves that we truly came with nothing and we are leaving with nothing. And uh and exactly what you said, and I know I'm sure Eckhart Tole says that too, is we create the suffering with attachment. And uh you know, like especially when you get attached, some people get attached to their homes and they continue making this making decisions of staying in uh whether it is uh an unsafe home, for example, it could have mold or whatever, and uh and you try to remediate or whatever, and still I think we make sometimes decisions because of the attachment, and then we think we are making a difference, but we are just creating more and more suffering, and I hope this is making sense. I don't know, I'm sure I feel the decisions are due to the attachments sometimes.

Attachment And The Health Identity Trap

SPEAKER_01 9:38

They are, and that's the thing. If if we're talking on this podcast about healing, I think it's so important to recognize like you've got to start looking at the things you're attached to. And this it all ties together. Everything we talk about, right? The being, and and like I look at every week and I'm like, it's just another piece of the onion, like we're peeling back layers, but it's also connected when we talk about physical health, right? Like, how attached are you to either your sickness or being healthy? And I know this can be triggering for some people, but we've we've talked about this before. Sometimes we start to identify as someone who is sick and we attach to that identity, perpetuating that sickness.

SPEAKER_00 10:25

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 10:26

We don't know who we would be when we're healthy and we're and we're so attached to it. Or on the flip side, we're so attached to getting healthy. I have to be healthy, I have to feel better, that you've got a death grip on it and it's not able to happen.

SPEAKER_00 10:39

And when it's not happening, you just get so attached even more and more and more, and you get uh desperate, and and then yeah, I yeah, I I don't know, it's just it's really and we do get attached to a lot of things, whether it's our children, to our past, to our thoughts, to our victimhood, to our conditioning, to the finances, relationships, friends, homes. Like we get attached to things and to people, to animals, you know, and then some people just start saying that like my life isn't not it's nothing without this person or that person or this thing in my life, and like you said, you get attached to sickness to like overly doing the health things, like whether it's the supplements to exercises, it's just and you get obsessed with it sometimes too, with that attachment. And and then I have to bring it back to fear. Why are we all getting so attached? Because we are we're fearing losing the thing, the the the person the the thing we're attached to or the person we're attached to, and sometimes you do lose yourself with that attachment.

SPEAKER_01 11:57

I think they're tied together. Yeah, I do, I think they're tied together because why are you attached to that thing? You know what I mean? And yes, it can be fear-driven, but what's driving that fear? When you can start to let go, and this is where I said, you know, I know there's a phrase out there of like attachment is, you know, a cause of suffering, but it is like when you can start to detach from everything around you, right? Like, I'm not attached to this outcome, I'm not attached to these clothes, I'm not attached to this house. It's harder to not be attached to someone like a child. Um, but when you can say, like, I'm not attached to these things, whatever happens, happens. You become happier, you become healthier. Like, again, I'm using myself as that example, but like there were aspects of me that were miserable because all I thought about 24 freaking seven, even in my dreams, was business. Gotta grow the business, gotta grow the business. When I finally said, I let it go, I release, whatever happens, happens. I'm homeschooling this year. I only have 10 hours a week, like my business looks completely different. I'm like, oh my gosh, now my values are aligned, right? Family is back to number one, and I'm truly acting that way. Like I'm present for my son. I'm not constantly thinking about what do I need to post on Facebook? What do I need to post on Instagram? And I feel at peace. And I did it when I was so attached.

Parenting Without Losing Yourself

SPEAKER_00 13:28

And I do have to bring in attachment to children. I get it, like we do get attached to our children, but sometimes it it does create not sometimes, it does create suffering because those children are not gonna stay the children forever, right? They are going to become adults, and if you don't let go of that attachment or if you don't learn how to let go of this attachment, then you create more suffering in that arena. You know, yes, I get it, you know, be attached to your children, absolutely. But someone told me, a friend of mine, yes, sure, but don't be uh a slave to your children, basically, right? And a lot of us moms, all we do is everything for the child that is an unhealthy attachment. And we justify because we're mothers, you know, we want to provide for them and we want to give them the love. But don't forget that the children are not gonna remain 10 or 11 or 5 years old, they are going to become adults and they're gonna have their lives, and then this is where some suffering and some grief actually happens because you you need to let go, or else you're gonna go back into the suffering loop of you know, they don't love me anymore, or this or that.

SPEAKER_01 14:43

And yeah, and they're on their own journey. Like, yes, I'm here for my child for everything, but I still have to have my own time, my own hobbies, and recognize that he is his own person. I don't care if he's 10 years old, he's his own person. Yes, I have boundaries and we have, you know, rules and things like that, but I'm not attached to the outcome of what he is going to become in life, you know. Like some people, some people are obsessed with that. You've got to be in these sports, you've got to do this, you've got to go to college. I'm not attached. I'm not attached to that.

SPEAKER_00 15:15

Absolutely. Or some people just live through their children, whether it is the sports, the career. There's a lot of cultures, you know, a lot of cultures where you have to be a doctor, you have to be an engineer, or else you don't get approval from the family. And I understand it's 2026, and but it this it still exists in many, many cultures. And you don't get approval, you get disowned by your family if you don't follow the path. Um a lot of people, you know, ignore their passions in order to fulfill that, and they live miserable and they create more suffering. Right. So it does really come back to the attachment of the idea of what my parents created for me, whether instead of what I want to create for myself, right? And that's where learn from now to detach from your children. If they're young, learn from now. Of course, like you said, boundaries, consequences, etc.

SPEAKER_01 16:13

Parent them, love them, you know.

SPEAKER_00 16:15

Love them, absolutely, yes. But don't get too attached to the point where your identity is them. Your identity is them.

SPEAKER_01 16:25

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:26

And then and then they all leave, and it's like, what happened? Oh my god, yeah. I don't know who I am anymore. I don't know who I am. I don't know if I am if I'm not taking going to soccer practice to dance practice to whatever. You know what I mean? Like it happens, it happens, so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:41

Well, and then this you said something, and it made me think of something else too. Don't confuse what we're saying with, oh, I shouldn't have any desires. Desire new pair of shoes, desire the purse, desire the house by all means, desire, you know, the best, whatever for your kid. Like, yeah, there's a difference between desire and detaching. Desire all the things, like live big, dream big, but don't get attached to that outcome. It's more like I really desire this thing, but if it doesn't happen, it's okay because something else is gonna happen and it's gonna be better. Like you talking through the house situation. Because initially, I think I was so caught off guard with the flood, and I was like, no, I love this neighborhood, I'm not ready to leave because it shocked me. But then I was like, okay, wait a minute, something better is gonna come along, you know. And if if you don't detach, you're gonna continue to struggle and be like, oh, because then we get into victim mentality and this horrible thing happened, and yada yada yada.

SPEAKER_00 17:44

Yeah, mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. It's it's it's a whole situation. Yeah, everything ties in together, and yeah, no, have the goals, have the desires, and but like you said, don't also over com not overcommit, like don't overdo it because kind of like when you put all of your eggs in one basket, right? So if like you get too attached to what you work to that desire that you forget everything else.

Clues You Are Too Attached

SPEAKER_01 18:20

And I think there are some key words or thoughts. If you're like, I don't know if I'm attached to it, the fear, right, is an emotional one, or like saying to yourself or others, I need this, I have to have this, I must have this, I can't live without whatever it might be. Or in my case, like obsessive thinking, like, gotta do this, gotta do this, gotta do this. Those are some clues that you need to let it freaking work.

SPEAKER_00 18:50

Right. And you ask this question, would I still be me if I lost that thing, or if that thing doesn't exist tomorrow? And sometimes it's really hard because let's go back to the children. It's like, oh my goodness, like your child is your baby, is your life sometimes, or a lot of the times, and you know, like, I don't know, it's just like I'm working through that because I just adore my kids, and I'm really attached to them, and thus this creates a lot of suffering for me. A lot of suffering, like I adore them, and when they're not happy, like my heart just like it's just breaks and it's so sad, but I'm also teaching myself to be like, Oh my goodness, like your children are also growing, you know. I have an adult child and one who's a teenager, and they are their own people and they have their own journey, and you know, you need to let go of that attachment. And I just work through a lot, a lot, it's and I have worked through a lot, it's it's not easy with people.

SPEAKER_01 20:01

That's why I said with people and children, like that's not easy, and I think there's a balance too, right? When you hear the spiritual girls and stuff talk about detaching, again, for me, it's a lot of the physical things. Yes, I think we also have to learn to detach from people because there can be that unhealthy. Like, I think there's a fine line, like you said, if your child goes off to college or whatever to live their life and you're like, I have no idea what I'm gonna do because everything I did was for them, that was unhealthy. Versus, oh my gosh, this is so hard. It's so hard to let you go. But I'm gonna be okay because I have XYZ that I'm gonna get on with, and you have your journey. Like it's okay to have that grieving.

SPEAKER_00 20:43

Oh, absolutely. And I love that you said that. I love that you said that because coming back to my example, it's like yes, you know, sometimes you know, I miss them or I I miss, you know, like yesterday I was crying because I missed just holding them when they were little. But my life is, you know, I am focusing on my self-care, I'm focusing on my business. I have plenty of students who are some of them are two years old and three years old that I see all the time, and I dedicate so much time for myself, for my well-being, and stuff like that. So I'm not constantly and obsessively thinking and waiting for my child to walk in the door or to call me, right? I do have other things, but it is it's not easy, and sometimes, you know, no, because we're still human things like we still have desires, we still care deeply. Uh I think it's easier to detach from things than from people.

SPEAKER_01 21:41

Yeah. And I think it I a hundred percent. And like I said, I think there is a balance of what detaching from a person looks like.

SPEAKER_00 21:52

Right. Like I don't think we were saying like become an ice queen. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, I'm caring about your kids. Yeah, like I Really hope we're not being misunderstood with this. And if we are, of course, like please let us, you know, ask us your question or whatnot. But I just it's like like I think you framed it really well. Like, you can't, like when your kid goes off to college, let's say, or they have their own career, their own family, you still maybe you know miss that part, but you're still living your life, you're not constantly waiting on them. Like some parents, they just rely on their children so much. They and then they suffocate them because they're constantly calling them. When are you gonna come visit me? Or if they don't come visit them, or they don't call them, they get upset with them, and and that child is caught, even though the child is an adult, they're constantly thinking about it. So you have your own life that you're focusing on. I mean, even with the house and things, like I don't think we're telling you, like, don't like don't I mean we're not saying become ice clean, like have like no heart or no empathy.

Worth, Acceptance, And Healing Peace

SPEAKER_01 23:04

Because I still grieved it. Like I had a a period of grieving of like, I wasn't ready to say goodbye to the neighborhood, to the neighbors, to my wall. Like, sounds so you know, cheesy in the scheme of things, but it's like, no, I had a little grieving period, but it's okay. I let it go. I'm not still sitting over here, like, I cannot believe this thing happened to me. It's so terrible. I shouldn't have had to leave this house and going on and on and on. I detached, it's okay. It's just a house. There are other houses, there are more memories, there's you know that to make, right?

SPEAKER_00 23:34

And remember to kind of like let's go back with you. Came with nothing, you're living with nothing, and your life is that eternity that you know, Dr. Windyer said. Also remember that your worth is not dependent on anything or anyone. You know, whether you are attached or detached from your children, you are still worthy, you are you are born worthy, you are loved no matter what. You know, you are a piece of the divine, you are like it is just your worth does not depend on these things or these people. That's the most important thing to understand. So love the things that you have, of course, work toward them, desire them, but don't get too attached to them to the point where you don't know who you are anymore without.

SPEAKER_01 24:25

Or you're now creating your own suffering.

SPEAKER_00 24:28

Uh right, hence creating your own suffering. And then you wonder, why am I suffering? Why are these things happening?

SPEAKER_01 24:36

And I think my final thought on this is there's a balance, there's that fine line. You can want healing, but also be at peace with your symptoms. You can want that success, like I was after, but you can also be content where you are. And it's just that I still want this, but I'm okay with where I'm at. I'm okay with what's going on, I'm okay with the situation. Absolutely. That's what it is.

SPEAKER_00 25:03

Accepting where you are, especially with all of the areas. So let's go back to health. You accept where you are in your health and move forward. And I know Luise always talks about it. Like you cannot change anything, you cannot heal yourself if you are constantly berating yourself and being hard on yourself. Accept where you are, accept who you are at this moment, and the change will happen. And I think we've we we also addressed that in the in the course that we've talked about. Change happens when you accept the present moment and then move forward and stop victimizing and being a victim of your circumstances. Accept them and then move on.

SPEAKER_01 25:48

Because healing happens when you stop fighting. And I'm not just talking physical healing, although that's relevant, but you're all here listening because there's some aspect of your life that needs healing. Stop fighting, stop fighting.

SPEAKER_00 25:59

All healing, all healing, the spiritual, the physical, anything. And again, like you know, the the the examples that I gave with, you know, that the podcasts were I mean, there are many examples out there where when people accept where they are, so many more miracles happen in their lives because they stopped resisting, because they want they they went with the flow, they rode the wave versus fighting the wave. Yeah, it's kind of like think about it when you're when you're when you're addressing a child that they're consistently fighting you over. I don't want to wear this, I don't want to wear this. There's no way like you're gonna you know force them, but when you let it go and they can wear whatever, it is what it is. Yeah, I'm done.

SPEAKER_01 26:43

Yeah, um, I feel complete on my end. How about you?

SPEAKER_00 26:47

I think so. I think so. I think the the it's it's a big reflection to look to have a little bit of an inventory of what are the things that you are so attached to that you truly don't know who you are without them, and it could be thing things or people and or habits or thoughts or or etc. And just have a mental note of why and how can I detach or surrender, how can I accept.

SPEAKER_01 27:22

And I also want to clarify: it's not even that you don't know who you are, because I knew who I was. I was somebody who was out looking for success. But it also went down to I was looking at my values and what's misaligned in my values. I say I want success and I say my family is important, but I'm completely ignoring my family because I'm trying to get the success and I'm so freaking attached to it. So I think you can lose yourself, but sometimes you don't know you've lost yourself. So look for those clues again of I have to have this, I can't live without this, I'm gonna be devastated if this happens, and work from there.

SPEAKER_00 27:58

Mm-hmm. Yeah. And remember that you came with nothing and you're leaving with nothing.

SPEAKER_01 28:04

Maybe that's our mantra. It's okay to have nothing.

Guided Breathwork With Detachment Mantra

SPEAKER_00 28:09

Yeah. Alright. Let's enter the breath. Today we're gonna do things a little bit differently because we're gonna exhale a little bit more, right? So we are going to do four, we're gonna inhale for four, hold for four, but we're gonna exhale for six. Okay. Alrighty, and we are going to our mantra is it's okay, it's safe to have nothing.

SPEAKER_01 28:37

Sure. Or you said something earlier that I was like, ooh, that's a perfect mantra, and now I forgot it. So it doesn't even have to be safe. It's okay for me to release and trust. I don't know. Sorry, yeah, you can tell we're winging this. We don't always come with a mantra, we let it come to us. Attached to nothing.

SPEAKER_00 28:59

I like it. Okay, alright. It just came to me right now. Let's go with it. Okay, so as usual, if you're driving, please do not close your eyes. But if you are not driving and you can close your eyes, put your hand on your heart, and let's inhale for four. One, two, three, four. Pause. Three, two, one, and exhale for six. Five, four, three, two, one. I attach two nothing. And then one more round. Inhaling for four, two, three, four, four, three, two, one, exhale, high, four, three, two, one, three.