The Amazing Movement Podcast

Amazing Mountain Climbing: Eleanor Davis' Journey of Resilience and Adventure | Ep 06

• Carol Beringer

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Meet Eleanor Davis: A Journey of Resilience, Adventure, and Authentic Living

In this inspiring episode, host Carol Beringer sits down with Eleanor Davis, whose life exemplifies true resilience. Eleanor shares her journey from nurse anesthetist to mountain climber, pilot, and breast cancer survivor. Join Carol and Eleanor as they explore authentic living. Eleanor's story includes surviving breast cancer, climbing Aconcagua (23,000 feet) with fellow survivors, learning to fly planes, and navigating loss while maintaining her zest for life. Later, sisters Sarah and Liz join the conversation about friendship and evolving relationships. This heartfelt conversation offers insights into aging gracefully, chosen family, and saying "yes" to life's adventures.

About Eleanor Davis: Eleanor is a retired nurse anesthetist who earned her BSN from the University of Pennsylvania at age 34. A breast cancer survivor, accomplished mountaineer, pilot, and advocate for women's health, Eleanor continues to live an active, engaged life while serving on multiple nonprofit boards and maintaining deep friendships that span decades.

About Sarah and Liz: Sisters who bring perspectives on fitness, wellness, and the evolving nature of relationships across generations. Their friendship with Eleanor exemplifies how women create chosen family and support each other through life's transitions.

CHAPTERS: 

00:00 Introduction to Amazing Movement Podcast
01:10 Eleanor's Journey: From Nursing to Philadelphia
03:01 Breast Cancer Diagnosis and Recovery
04:37 Mountain Climbing Adventures and Kilimanjaro
07:59 Learning to Fly Planes to Overcome Fear
10:50 Life Priorities and Navigating Loss
13:24 Caring for Family and Community Service
16:40 Choosing Resilience as a Daily Practice
17:54 Sisters Sarah and Liz Join the Conversation
19:14 The Power of Female Friendships
22:31 Evolving Relationships Across Generations
26:01 Navigating Societal Change and Polarization

ABOUT CAROL BERINGER: With 25+ years of experience, Carol combines expertise in brain-based functional movement, Pilates, and yoga to help clients achieve improved posture, pain relief, and lifelong wellness. Her mission is to help people live as well as they can for as long as they can, building a community of women embracing wellness and joy as a lifestyle.

CONNECT WITH CAROL:

Subscribe for weekly episodes to continue your journey toward wellness and resilience!

#FunctionalMovement #Resilience #WomensFriendship #AgingGracefully #BreastCancerSurvivor #MountainClimbing #AmazingMovement #WellnessJourney

00:00 - Carol Beringer (Host)
Welcome to my weekly podcast. I'm building a community embracing wellness and joy as a lifestyle. Join me as I explore diverse self-care practices to live as well as we can for as long as we can. Let's embark on this vibrant journey together. Welcome back to Amazing Movement, and this is Eleanor Davis. I'll introduce Eleanor and Eleanor and I have known each other for oh my gosh, I think since 17, so eight years, and Eleanor is such an inspiration to me and we're yeah, and we both had a morning, so we thought we were going to get here and calmly begin a podcast, and Eleanor didn't know that she was going to be filmed. She thought it was speaking only, and I was at the dentist, which took a half an hour longer than I anticipated, so we both just rushed in here. So we met in 2018 because Eleanor came to my Pilates studio and we became fast friends. We did, yes, and so Eleanor inspires me because she grew up in Pittsburgh, so I'm going to let you tell a little bit of your story about how you arrived in Philadelphia. 

01:10 - Eleanor Davis (Guest)
Okay, well, actually I grew up in Pittsburgh and I'm from a big family, one of six kids, the fourth one, so that has something to do with my birth order and who I am. But I went to nursing school in Pittsburgh at the Western Pennsylvania Hospital, and while I was there I always felt that I wanted to be a doctor and so when I graduated I worked in the operating room for a year, got my skills together, and then I actually moved to Philadelphia and got my certificate at Temple University and became a nurse anesthetist and I felt that I could work my way through medical school because I didn't have the funds. And well, something interrupted that. I met my husband at a party and I was married, and so I never did go on to medical school. But I practiced for 10 years at St Christopher's Hospital and Lankanaw Hospital after I graduated, and then I had kids and I always missed the fact that I never had a college degree. 

02:14
So when I was 34, I went back to the University of Pennsylvania and I got my BSN at Penn and it was an incredible experience of going back and being with a lot of younger students and, you know, just learning. I just the opportunity to learn and to be in that experience, as opposed to the medical side of things and to philosophy and English and sociology all the things that kind of broaden the way you look at the world. So that's how I got to Philadelphia and my husband developed a company here and so I raised my children here, and now they've flown the coop and are all over the United States. So that's how it is. 

03:01 - Carol Beringer (Host)
Yes, and that's quite a story that I ask her details about all the time because it inspires me. Then you had some health issues. I did yes. Yes, about 35 years ago. 

03:13 - Eleanor Davis (Guest)
Actually it was 1980. I was diagnosed with breast cancer and you know my kids were still young. Peter was 10, the youngest. I have three children and uh, that was you know nobody. 

03:31
The way that I was treated then, compared to what they're treated today is, is really pretty different, because they couldn't do the DNA analysis and they couldn't do they didn't do hormonal analysis, and so the treatment that I had is I was recommended that I have a mastectomy and then chemotherapy. I was on chemotherapy for a year, you know, lost all my hair, kind of struggled through that. I was okay, you know, you just do what you have to do. I drove myself to treatment every two weeks and I took something in between, and then, you know, you get over it, but you never stop worrying about the cancer, not for a long time, and I don't think about it now at all. Then it was recommended that I have another mastectomy, just as prophylactic, which I did, and in today's world that never, ever would have happened. So I'm grateful for my life and I'm grateful that things have changed for many women over the years and I've been always involved in counseling or helping women who have breast cancer. 

04:37 - Carol Beringer (Host)
To add to that, to recover and prove her resiliency, you joined a group of women who took on a mission to climb a mountain as a mother. 

04:48 - Eleanor Davis (Guest)
Nobody went to the gym. There really wasn't any gym back then. I mean, there were no personal trainers. 

04:53 - Carol Beringer (Host)
You had the kind of things that still jiggle you around, all that sort of things, or treadmills, I guess people got out and walked and that sort of thing. 

05:02 - Eleanor Davis (Guest)
But I was invited to go on a trip with my husband to Nepal. He always wanted to see the highest mountain in the world, and so Everest. And so I did Jane Fonda for six weeks and I jumped around in front of the television set and I thought, wow, this is, I'm just really in great shape. We got over there and I struggled. They weren't very high mountains, but they were up and down, up and down for six days and I thought at the end of it, with people passing me by, this is never going to happen again. So I then had the opportunity. 

05:40
So I've been fortunate enough to have climbed Kilimanjaro in Africa, which is 19,000 feet, and the training was different walking and lifting and then I went. I've been to Bhutan and South America. Somebody asked me would you be interested in joining a group of breast cancer survivors? And I looked at what they were going to do and I thought you know, gee, I've done this and I've done that and, yeah, I've had breast cancer and maybe this is an opportunity. I'll just send my name in. And they did choose me to to meet with this group of women in Sun Valley. 

06:15
There were 17 of us and I didn't know any of these women. We were like just drawn together from all different backgrounds. We respected each other, we learned from each other. Some of the women were gay, which didn't make any difference, but back then that was a new thing. 

06:40
And we subsequently climbed Mount Rainier not the whole way, but we then went our own ways and trained for almost a year Me carrying a backpack around the neighborhood, where people used to stop and say, oh lady, can I give you a lift into Paoli? Et cetera. But I met these women in Argentina and we climbed the highest mountain in the western hemisphere, aconcagua. I didn't get to the top, I wasn't supposed to, but three of the women did 23,000 feet and they did a documentary which was sent all over the world in several languages, and to prove to women that had had breast cancer that you don't need to sit at home. You need to, you're okay, you can go out, you can lift your groceries, you can have your children, you can participate in the world just like everybody else and to move on. And it was a life-changing experience and this year I'm going to we're all going to be together for our 30th reunion. 

07:46 - Carol Beringer (Host)
I didn't know that. That's awesome. It's coming up in May. Where are you going to have that reunion? 

07:50 - Eleanor Davis (Guest)
We're in. 

07:50 - Carol Beringer (Host)
California, yes, and then not only those accomplishments. When did you learn to fly a plane? 

07:59 - Eleanor Davis (Guest)
Oh well, I was afraid of flying. I grew afraid, I think once I had children and it used to be really difficult to get on a plane. So one birthday my husband gave me flying lessons, and not one to turn down, a challenge. I learned, went out and took lessons and I had to fly by myself. I took off and landed and flew from place to place and I never was completely comfortable with it. 

08:32
I think you need a lot of experience, but I used to take the kids and I used to take some friends flying and I look back on it and I think, my God, how did I ever do that? But you know what? It was much better than a psychiatrist and I got over the fear of flying. I figured if I could do it, those pilots up front are much better than I am and I can just sit down now and relax. And I have to say that that challenge took me back to when I went to Penn with all those bright young people and every time I took a final and I thought to myself you know what, if you can fly a plane, you surely can pass this test. 

09:16 - Carol Beringer (Host)
And I'm sure you passed them all with flying colors. Well, I mean, I did graduate. 

09:20 - Eleanor Davis (Guest)
But you know, there's that sense of are you good enough? Always right, yeah, Are you good enough or are you smart enough? And I guess I was. 

09:32 - Carol Beringer (Host)
You certainly were. And then the other vision I always have of you is when you told me about taking riding lessons. You learned to ride a horse. 

09:41 - Eleanor Davis (Guest)
Something I always wanted to do. I was never real comfortable with that either, but I went out there and I learned how to do it and I did buy a horse my trainer encouraged me to do that and I'd go out and I'd ride around the field and et cetera and so forth. And you know what? It was a really great experience, because I've watched Westerns, we've watched Westerns, and it always looked like you could ride off into the sunset. Well, that takes a whole lot of courage and so forth, but anyway, I, you know, it was another thing that I just tried, that I wanted to do and, and you know, put that behind me too. 

10:17 - Carol Beringer (Host)
Yes, and Eleanor has had the most full life, and so I'm going to ask just a couple of questions that I have a theme when I start these interviews, so I usually do batches of four, and the theme is always resolved to be resilient, and you can see that this is complete proof of just awesome resilience and you know it goes on to this day. I mean, I know that there's other challenges that you've had, but right now, if you had to list your three top priorities, what would they be? 

10:50 - Eleanor Davis (Guest)
Now, you know, I'm sort of in the last chapter of my life, and I don't say that in a morose way, it's just that I think about things differently certainly I do than I was 50. And my family and my children are my top priority and have always been my top priority, and the one thing that I realize is that I really need to see them more often. One lives in Santa Fe, my grandson's in LA, my son's in Austin and my granddaughter's in Austin, and I think we need to—we do see each other, but I need to make more of an effort to get to them and spend more time with them, because time is short. 

11:33 - Carol Beringer (Host)
If you don't mind my asking, you also lost a son. Yeah, I did and you had to resolve that. 

11:38 - Eleanor Davis (Guest)
Yeah Well— how old was he? Yeah, my son, oldest son, was killed in an automobile accident in 1995. So that was the year I climbed that mountain and I lost a son and that was like the best year of my life and the worst year of my life. And you know, you talk about resilience Took me about two and a half years that I traveled in kind of a fog, kind of going through the motions of getting up every morning and doing everything and then all of a sudden the fog kind of passed and I was able to focus on life again and move on from there. But I and I think this is really something that's important for everybody that in order to be able to be resilient, it's okay to reach out and get people to help you. 

12:34 - Carol Beringer (Host)
And strong women like you find it very difficult. 

12:38 - Eleanor Davis (Guest)
Well, I was found a Buddhist teacher in 1995 who I still talk to today, and that's a long time ago and I can hear his voice and he taught me about Buddhism, about our impermanence, about the fact that, whatever, we have to realize that we're not going to be here forever, even at that age, even with a loss, and that you need to make the most of every day. And I think that added to my sense of resilience. You know that you have to get up, and you. It's not always easy, but you have to do it. That's all you just have to do it, otherwise you can stay in bed all day, right? 

13:24 - Carol Beringer (Host)
And Eleanor has been on her own a while because her husband, Hal, that she's mentioned, had early dementia and how old was he when that occurred? 

13:32 - Eleanor Davis (Guest)
I guess he was about 70. Yeah, and he was sick for a long time, about 20 years. That took a lot of resiliency and I did visit him and eventually he was in a nursing home and I did visit him almost every day and I saw the decline and it was hard, because I think one of the things that single women find out because I was a single woman then I was a widow but I still had a husband is that you become your whole life experience, with your friendships and couples, changes completely and you have to find new ways of staying involved and engaged, and I think that's also something that's really important to me to this day and Eleanor stays very involved. 

14:27 - Carol Beringer (Host)
So she's off to a conference today at Penn. Um, let's see, she's involved in the board of natural lands. Yeah, and um schools in the city. Um, the university of the gosh, what else? 

14:44 - Eleanor Davis (Guest)
Well, Community Volunteers in Medicine, which is in Westchester and provides health care for the working poor, which, of course, is being challenged today. 

14:55 - Carol Beringer (Host)
so much and I'm lucky enough that Eleanor has introduced me to all of these different and I've introduced her to a couple of unusual things. 

15:03 - Eleanor Davis (Guest)
She's my new date. I take her everywhere. 

15:05 - Carol Beringer (Host)
I am so because I'm also single and and um, and I'm not a wallflower, so she doesn't have to worry but, we. We really have enjoyed um each other's company and learned a lot from each other and boost each other and I I hope we can ask each other for the help we need. 

15:24 - Eleanor Davis (Guest)
One of the questions you posed to me was have your priorities changed? Have your priorities in your life changed, and what is your focus right now? 

15:35 - Carol Beringer (Host)
Well, my focus is to age with the same vitality. So I'll reveal that I'm 72 years old. I'm not talking about anybody else's age. And it's funny because at 70, one of my friends posted on Facebook happy 70th birthday and I called her up and I'm like I'm not getting off the phone until you remove that, and now I'm advertising to the world that I'm 72. And you really have to be your own advocate and your children aren't nearby. I have only one son and I don't. So I continue to build a network of people that I can rely on and that they can rely on me, and health professionals, both alternative and medical. So it's really. I always say aging is not for weenies. 

16:25
So, I'm trying to age gracefully, and I have a Pilates studio, so I stay very active. It's a very busy studio, and so my priorities have always been to be fit and healthy. 

16:40 - Eleanor Davis (Guest)
I think resiliency is a choice. 

16:42 - Carol Beringer (Host)
It is, it truly is. 

16:43 - Eleanor Davis (Guest)
And so how do you? 

16:44 - Carol Beringer (Host)
intentionally. I mean, every day I wake up and I say I'm going to just be the best person I can be today, yeah, because you do have a choice. 

16:51 - Eleanor Davis (Guest)
You can sit and you can moan about things, which doesn't mean that we don't have difficulties, that's legitimate. Or that there is time for feeling you know, recognizing that you do have difficulties and being with that. But you have a choice to stay there or to move on and take them with you and do better for yourself. 

17:12 - Carol Beringer (Host)
And the second part of the amazing movement is how do we do that? How? 

17:15
do we get here, feel strong, feel our authentic selves and move forward with that. So I think that you know what I've known of you is this is your authentic self, and that our circumstances make us be resilient. And you know, they always say like it's not how you sing in the sunshine, it's how you dance in the rain, or something like that. So we have some other guests that are going to join us. Part of what I'm going to include in this episode, this segment, is that friends are the family that we build for ourselves, that we choose for ourselves, and so the two women that are going to join us are sisters, and I'll introduce them. 

17:54
And Eleanor met Sarah, who's coming in, was her trainer, and her sister, liz. I met during yoga training and then Liz decided that I should meet Eleanor and that's what brought us all together. So hello, ladies, come on in here and join us. Friends are the family we choose for ourselves, but you two are already and you are best friends, but I would still choose you. I would still choose you too. I met Eleanor because you were her trainer at some point yes yes and then I became friends with. 

18:22 - Eleanor Davis (Guest)
Liz during a yoga training 20 some years ago so long ago. 

18:26 - Sarah  (Guest)
How's that? 

18:27 - Liz (Guest)
possible. Well, do you know, I always think people think of setting up romantic partnerships. People always think, oh, we should set you up with somebody. But I've kind of felt like setting. I think you should set friends up too when you meet people that you just think are going to get along, and that's kind of how that all came about. 

18:46 - Carol Beringer (Host)
I just thought, you guys all sorts of connections yeah, hit it off, and each of us has been single at different times or now, and yeah, and that that shifts your thoughts, because we've had children also and when then when you're like you really find that a network of women, hallelujah, yeah, goodness for that right. Yeah, I mean you two always had each other. I didn't have any sisters, you had several right but they're not nearby, so well, no but I talked to him. 

19:14 - Eleanor Davis (Guest)
I talked to my one sister who's going through breast cancer right now and chemo, and I speak to her every day, I call every day where does she live? She lives in florida. She lives in Florida and the other sister lives in Pittsburgh. So I mean, there's a circle. But you know, I really depend on my female friends and I think women are better at connecting with each other and maintaining relationships, absolutely. 

19:39 - Liz (Guest)
I really do the gatherer, they gather. 

19:41 - Eleanor Davis (Guest)
They reveal more about themselves. They share. It's not just about sports or careers. 

19:47 - Sarah  (Guest)
Well, we thrive on that level of connection in a deeper way. We needed to, we had to take care of the tribe and we had to work together in order to survive. So I think there's that innate, you know, built-in connection that we need each other for. 

20:02 - Eleanor Davis (Guest)
You know, I think that's true because, even if you go back to hunters and gatherers, the men were out hunting bears and whatever mammoths, dragging them home, but the women were always either with the children or doing something around food. 

20:18 - Liz (Guest)
It was a more cooperative kind of relationship rather than a competitive relationship, I think. Well, I think that's when women work the best and those are the sort of relationships that are the best. Of course, you do have female friendship groups that can be competitive, but you seek others who have a similar view to you, do you know? Yes, so I'm always attracted to, you know, female friends that have that more cooperative, communal kind of attitude towards friendships. 

20:52 - Sarah  (Guest)
Well, I think that's when we're healthiest and our best and our brains are primed and prepped for that, and the evolution of the way society has evolved has evolved faster than our brains are able to. 

21:02 - Carol Beringer (Host)
So I think, fundamentally, that's what we need to thrive Because I had all brothers and all boys. So I have a 40-year-old son and I can see that in his generation it's coming back to more of a cooperative, like the way their relationships and parenting occur is very different from our generation. 

21:23 - Liz (Guest)
Yes, yeah, I agree, we were just talking about that the other day and I I do think that I think you know household tasks are shared more, or or talked about people. You know, I think couples younger couples now consciously talk about their roles and how to divide the. You know the labor, or you know who is. Maybe somebody's job is more demanding. 

21:46 - Carol Beringer (Host)
Well, there's double careers also, much more often now. 

21:50 - Sarah  (Guest)
I think if we start having conversations and evolve it in terms of energy there's male energy, female energy. That's a bit restrictive and it makes these gender biases. But I do think if we start talking in terms of like, oh, what do you bring to the table? Maybe that happens to be a more masculine energy or feminine energy well, it's yin and yang. 

22:09 - Liz (Guest)
Yeah, it is, it's the yin and the yang. 

22:12 - Sarah  (Guest)
It doesn't have to be black and white in the stereotypical way, I think, when we come together to say, oh you know, this is what I am good at what are? You good at, or this is. This is how this we're aborigine. They actually don't celebrate birthdays on a specific day they're born. They celebrate it when they feel like they've evolved as a human being Some people don't have any birthdays. 

22:31
Yeah, no, no, weird, but I just think that's really cool, like oh, this is what I've evolved, this is what I can contribute to, and I feel like if we all have that conversation a lot more we're like oh, that's great, it doesn't have to be the typical thing that you have to be pigeonholed into yeah, I don't think those conversations used to happen you know actually when. 

22:52 - Eleanor Davis (Guest)
I went back to Penn, I took women's studies, which was really quite interesting, but so in my house, in my home, I used to invite all my family to come for Thanksgiving and because I had a big house and I had in my house, in my home, I used to invite all my family to come for Thanksgiving, and because I had a big house and I had five brothers and sisters and they had wives and they had children, they all would come for three days. So, out of women's studies, we were given the task how do people divide up tasks? And so I actually asked my brothers and brothers-in-law to write out how they prepared to come for Thanksgiving, and then I asked my sisters to do the same, and the guys actually did write out what their preparation was, and it was exactly what was it? 

23:35
Well, exactly Well, they made sure the car was working, they made sure that they had plenty of gas, they made sure that they could fit in you know, fit in any suitcases that the weather was okay, that the driving was going to be safe, what time they should leave and you know, all things that really do take care of the family, and that was their job. That's what they felt, and then my sisters, of course, never even thought about that. What they talk about, what could they make? What kind of food could they bring? Was it going to be cold? What kind of clothing? What did they need to dress up in at night? 

24:12
So, it was complete. It was such an interesting dialogue between them and they actually wrote these things out. I was so surprised to contribute Wow. 

24:24 - Carol Beringer (Host)
That must have been a lot of fun. Well, the way things have shifted, my son, who just got married it'll be two years soon the first conversation he had with his now wife she asked him do you cook? And he happens to cook. And he said yes, and she goes good, because I know. 

24:42
So, you know. So it was really. You know that was a great icebreaker, yeah, yeah, and it set up their whole first date, which is, you know, one of my favorite stories, stories, but um yeah. So by the time it came around to their wedding and I was asked to do a little speech, I said, you know, at this point in time, parents are usually offering words of wisdom, but I have gained more wisdom watching you two develop a relationship of mutual respect and support right um complete respecting each other's independence and communicating at a level. 

25:17
That's astounding yeah, and I see this in his whole group of friends and their wives and that's beautiful yeah, it really is. That's what I mean. 

25:24 - Liz (Guest)
I think we are having a shift, but I think it's reactionary with other people. I think so. I think there's a big segment of the population that's really threatened by that, oh men yeah. Both men and women, like, if you see, the trad wife trend is a really big thing. 

25:41 - Carol Beringer (Host)
What kind of? What is it? Oh, traditional, traditional wife, the hip or trad wife. Okay, got it, I got it. I mean, liz is more hip than we are. 

25:56 - Liz (Guest)
I do have Instagram, you know. I think we are at a time in society where there is a little bit of there, a little bit there is a conflict. I don't think anybody would disagree with that. 

26:01 - Carol Beringer (Host)
No, I agree. 

26:01 - Liz (Guest)
There's that. So this polarization, I think, is because people feel people are uncomfortable with change, either on a micro, micro level, just in their own lives, or societal level, and I think that what we're seeing now is a lot of reaction to that, you know and because people feel threatened by that. You know if, if you know, I don't have my traditional role where I understand what I'm supposed to do and I'm comfortable with that, whether it's good or not. If you're comfort people are, people like comfort. 

26:37 - Sarah  (Guest)
Creatures of habit. 

26:38 - Liz (Guest)
Yeah, they're creatures of habit, and so change is threatening, and so I do think that's Well. 

26:42 - Eleanor Davis (Guest)
it follows too down from tradition. I don't mean to sorry no you're all good, but actually Wharton just put out a an opportunity for us to to dial in and find out, and one of the questions was about masculinity and how men are feeling men. Are men feeling threatened, and why are they feeling threatened? And and and I think it's something we have to address- I totally agree. 

27:07 - Liz (Guest)
I think that dismissing it or devaluing it or saying not validating that is wrong and I think that's made a lot of men feel disenfranchised and you know, I think that we need to understand and not just impose certain I don't know ideas or views on people, but really try to understand each other. 

27:31 - Sarah  (Guest)
She was okay with saying I'm a woman who doesn't cook, Whereas some people would feel threatened by that because that's their role and I should be a woman I should like to cook, you know. 

27:39 - Liz (Guest)
And then interesting. Well, I think that's an expectation, like does that make you less of a and how honest are you with yourself? 

27:47 - Sarah  (Guest)
Cause I know for me I had a lot of that like, oh, I should be doing the shoulds the shoulds. 

27:52 - Carol Beringer (Host)
Don't shit on yourself, don't shit on me. I won't shit on you, but shooting on yourself is the big? 

27:57 - Liz (Guest)
is it's true and just? 

27:59 - Sarah  (Guest)
being like real with what, what. Who really am I? And it's okay. And if we were all to do that a little bit more, because even with the masculinity question that they're asking about that and you're saying we have to, you know, respect, that that's something really happening. 

28:12
Femininity side of it both, I mean yeah, yeah, I know, but if we were able to have the conversation more of like okay, that's, that's legitimately how you're feeling, yeah, okay, this is legitimately how I'm feeling. Yes, what can we do about that? And just having that fundamental respect for even the trad wife, hey, if someone wants to be a traditional wife and they really feel that that's who they are in their soul that's great. It's when they have to feel that they should want that that everybody else should be doing that too. 

28:40 - Liz (Guest)
Yes, exactly, and that's where we've really lost. Or bringing judgment to other people for their choices. 

28:47 - Sarah  (Guest)
Seek to understand should be the first thing, and we've lost the seeking to understand and the curiosity, I think you know, from just a more societal perspective. 

28:55 - Carol Beringer (Host)
My son also says that he travels a lot in business. But he said their days are they both work seven to seven, and then they from seven to nine. They cook together now and they, well, he cooks, she cleans up, whatever, whatever they. However, they distribute that. And he says and we spend that time with each other. And he says, and we definitely call each other out on our bullshit, we don't let anything fester. 

29:20
Yeah, and that they just do that and then they used to pick one day a week where no phones, nobody else, just that we called sacred Sundays, but now it's whatever day they can find. 

29:28 - Sarah  (Guest)
Oh, that's really great. 

29:29 - Carol Beringer (Host)
Yeah, sacred Sundays, but now it's whatever day they can find. Oh, that's really great too. Yeah, they don't have children yet, so things may shift, but I just I'm awestruck, and I just see this in most of his other friends, and the ones that he's uncomfortable about the partnerships of his friends are the ones that don't, so I guess that still exists. 

29:43 - Sarah  (Guest)
Well, it sounds like they're very intentional, yes, you know. 

29:45 - Carol Beringer (Host)
So they have this intentionality that is really important to have and that was one of my questions to all of you that I said, like how do you intentionally build resilience into your every day? Right? But I think we have to get our Eleanor out of here because she has things to do. 

30:00 - Eleanor Davis (Guest)
Yes, anyway, thank you so much. 

30:02 - Carol Beringer (Host)
There are four decades of women who are friends who are? Resilient. 

30:08 - Liz (Guest)
I just feel so lucky. 

30:16 - Carol Beringer (Host)
So let us all carry on right. All right, join us next time, and if you want to know anything about the people that I have on instead of me using all the different phone numbers, emails, just reach out to hello at carolbarringercom, and then I can. I can give you the information.