181 How Your Food & Body Struggle Can Be the Way In - Sally's Story

Hear how my client Sally went from decades of yo-yo dieting to finally releasing over 20 lbs at age 64 by befriending hunger and learning how to attune to her satiety. 

No meal plans. No fasting schedule. 

What if rather than thinking of hunger as an emergency, as something to suppress or ignore is our friend? 

What if your struggle with food and your body turns out to be the key to accessing your inner beauty? 

That rather than your weight loss goal being a quest for self-acceptance, it becomes the doorway into self acceptance.

Book a free call during Next Steps June to see if the Mindful Shape coaching program is right for you.

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Transcript

This transcript was auto-generated, please forgive any weirdness.

 welcome to the Mindful Shape Podcast. I have a special treat for you in this episode. You get to meet my dear client, Sally, who you are going to find is very forthcoming about her decades of yo-yo dieting and her struggles with body image. She's brilliant, insightful, and poetic. You'll learn how at 64, she released 20 pounds, over 20 pounds in my program by befriending hunger and learning how to attune to her satiety. There's no meal plans here, no fasting schedule. What if, rather than thinking of hunger as an emergency, as something to suppress or ignore, is actually our friend? What if your struggle with food and your body turns out to be the key to accessing your inner wisdom and your inner beauty? That rather than your weight loss goal being a quest for self-acceptance, it really becomes the doorway into self-acceptance. Lean into this one. I think you're really going to get a lot out of it. Enjoy.

Client Story - Sally

[00:00:00] 

Why don't you just tell me a little bit about kind of where you were before you reached out to me for coaching? Yeah. So I was thinking back on my history as a dieter, and I really kind of started dieting, I think, when I was 10, and my mom got the first computer diet, and I started believing that, oh, yeah, the answer's outside of myself from the earliest of age, and there's a magic recipe, and that's the way to get fixed from not being satisfied with whatever the size and shape of my body was.

And, you know, since then, I think, you know, I tried kind of everything from Overeaters Anonymous to Weight Watchers. I did the Beverly Hills diet in the 1980s, which you're probably too young to remember, where we ate pineapple kinda till our mouth bled. Um, but by the time I turned 50 after a history of dieting, I weighed the most I ever had.

I'd had some really tough stuff happen in my 40s, and food was, as it always was, kind of everything, [00:01:00] and I used it as, as everything. And I, started my 50s weighing the most I ever had. And I think I was... think I did Weight Watchers, and I lost 30 pounds at that time, and it was like, as my husband likes to say, kiss the door, where you just go someplace for a minute and then come.

"Well, kiss the door. We don't have to stay long." I was like that weight that was like, "That's the weight I wanna be." Um, maybe 20 minutes, I think I went and weighed and I took everything off but my underwear kind of situation, and then within, you know, three days, I'd sort of yo-yoed back up. I'm 62.

Throughout the next 10 years, I kept 10 or 15 of that 30 off, but I then proceeded to lose the same 10 pounds over and over and over again. I did Noom. I did the Zoe program. I learned great things from all of them, but ultimately, I would kind of end up sort of off the [00:02:00] ranch of a weight range and just be really dissatisfied.

I hated getting my picture taken. I didn't like going clothes shopping. I hated looking in the mirror that wasn't the safe mirrors in my house. And I, you know, I would grab parts of my body and just be mean to myself and just... It wasn't so much, I think, like- Food noise, but I think when you and I met to talk, it was a lot of body noise.

And, you know, at the same time, GLP-1s came on. I don't have judgments about GLP-1s, but I have worked kind of hard to get into my body, and I didn't wanna lose the source of energy and creativity, and I, I had heard talk about that with people who were, were taking those drugs. And I didn't wanna do something for…

I mean, just personally, I didn't wanna be on a forever drug. And I love food. So that's kind of where I was. That's [00:03:00] where I was. Unhappy, unable, but unwilling to take that step of, of introducing a pharmaceutical for the rest of my life. Although I wanna just be clear, I respect it, and I, I know it has worked really well for some folks, and I know it has- Mm-hmm

a lot of health benefits. So I'm not against it. It just didn't seem right for me. Yeah. No, that's fair. And then what prompted you to reach out to me and, and this program? I, have a friend. I live in Minneapolis and have a friend who was working with you, and I hadn't seen her for a bit, and I walked into a coffee with her, and I was like, "What?", She looked so great, and she was so happy, and she sort of w- was... held me a little bit at a distance. But then when I really professed genuine interest, she shared, That she was working with you. And, you know, then you have [00:04:00] great stuff and great resources to get to know you without having to really make a commitment to understand sort of like what is this.

And so then it was easy to feel like, "Okay, I'm ready. This is what I've been looking for." Okay, cool. And then did you have a specific goal in mind? I did pretty quickly, although I remember when we started, you were like, "Well, what would be, a goal that would make you happy, like, at a midpoint?"

And I was like, "If I weighed this at this date, I would be thrilled." And I weighed that so fast. The beginning went very quickly and easily for me. I achieved my goal pretty easily within the timeframe and then realized like, oh, maybe I wanna go just a little bit lower. Mm-hmm. Um, which I never imagined, and it's like high school numbers. It's kind of funny, but it's like, "Oh, okay. That's okay. It feels okay. It feels safe.

It doesn't feel disordered in any way. I just want a little, just a little more room, for my range," because I'm... I know we go up [00:05:00] and down a little bit, and so I wanna just go down a little bit so I feel solid in my range. It's interesting that that weight that I kissed the door at at Weight Watchers, you know, in my 50s, my body has settled into and really seems to like, which is interesting to me.

And I've actually gone below it, so. Yeah. What do you know now that you didn't know, say, like, in your 50s? Like, why do you think you had such quick success when you... we started working together? I just think as the program or as I worked with the program, for me, it just really was approachable

Like, for me, I've been thinking about this, it's like I, I feel like there's been three phases for me, and the first phase was really that metabolic phase, the body. I had no idea about, metabolic flexibility. I always was like, "Oh, what's the diet, and should I have a snack?" And I was a snacker.

And so I'd done a little bit of intermittent fasting before I started with you, and so the [00:06:00] no-snacking thing was the first thing I adopted, and that was- Not hard for me. It was not hard for me to transition from kind of a, being a grazer to a no snacker. And I think I was unaware of how much I was snacking.

And I think that allowed, excuse me, like the first chunk to come off pretty easily. I didn't understand the, the metabolics. I didn't understand just the biochemistry of my own body, even though I've been a professional dieter my whole life, and you know, know so much about dieting. No, I didn't understand that.

And then, you know, the second phase for me was really more of that emotional stuff and the coaching stuff in the middle. And I think being able to get a little success under my feet before addressing some of the deeper stuff was great for me. And now I kinda feel like I'm in the last phase, and we've been talking about just a little bit more precision, a little bit more attention to things [00:07:00] that bump up for me, just a little bit more about traditional weight loss.

But I have enough under my feet now with that. I don't think I could have done that at the beginning. But now it's like, oh, I'm doing it... You call them sprints. I'm doing a little sprint where there's, I bring the sails in a little, um, with confidence knowing that Sticking to my protocol and eating foods that serve the majority of the time gives me what I want to have great days.

Yeah. Okay. Okay. What was challenging for you? Throughout this process. I think some of the, um-

scripts around the way things should be, like, just we bumped up a lot of it in our coaching. The things that I needed coaching for was what was challenging. Just old feelings. Uh, would people notice I lost weight? What if they didn't notice I lost weight? How would I feel about it when people ask me how I lost weight?

I want to be seen. I don't want to be [00:08:00] seen. I wanna not have anyone tell me what to do and if it's me. Just all these old, like, emotional scripts. I think one thing that was really tender that I really appreciated was when you, when I reached my goal and I was like, "But I don't look like I looked in high school."

And, and, you know, I think that's, I'm 62. I've had three kids. I've had gravity pulling down on me for a long time. It's not gonna be, you know, it's not gonna solve every problem. You know, there's a wished-for sort of like, "And then I'll go to prom." You know what I mean? So the stories I've told myself or tell myself, I think have been coming up against them and just letting the feelings come and letting the feelings go.

Um, staying present and I think that's been, been the, those have been the challenges. But it's been wonderful to have [00:09:00] your help. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, good. Okay. Okay, amazing. I'm really curious what you've learned about yourself along the way or maybe something that you've remembered that you may have forgotten.

Oh, wow. Um, gosh, I've learned so much about,

What the job of food is and what the job of food isn't. And I think, the biggest thing I've learned is that hunger is my friend, and being able to reclaim that relationship and look inward for the answers has been just, it, profoundly important to me. Mm-hmm. I was thinking about, this conversation. I was like, in the movie My Big Fat Greek Wedding, they, Windex was for everything. They would put on their zits.

I don't know if you ever saw that movie, but it was like, da-da-da, Windex. And Windex was the answer for everything in my big... [00:10:00] One of the characters did. And it was like, like, food was, "Oh, you're lonely. Food. Oh, you need to make a transition in the day. Food. Oh, you're tired. Food. You're sad. Food." And,

I mean, the job of food, I wrote it down, so let me see if I can find it. Because, Well, food can be a pleasure, and it can offer comfort and be exciting, offer novelty, introduce to me to a culture, and those are all roles that I still see it playing. But I've learned that there are other ways to have those pleasures.

Food shouldn't have to carry the weight of all that in my life. Mm-hmm.

It's friend satiety, you know, that's the, you know, the program cores of, eat foods that serve and eat enough Mm-hmm

That question of have I had enough [00:11:00] really requires an attending to what it is that I'm eating. And so there is pleasure to be had. For me in everyday foods, I take care with what I eat. I take care of myself. I prepare beautiful food for myself. I enjoy eating and I enjoy eating foods for the most part that serve me.

It's a very transformed relationship both with food and hunger and satiety. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I think people listening are gonna really relate to what you said about food for comfort, food for relaxation, food for transitions.

How have you been able to navigate that differently? Like, what does it, what does that look like for you now?

It's really just asking myself the same questions about what's happening [00:12:00] when I'm hungry as I'm asking myself, like I, I wrote down, you know, like, In this transformation, hunger has become a friend who gets to say less about what I eat, but a lot more about when I do. And so I ask hunger new questions like, "Is it really you?

Hunger, is that really you, darling?" You have a planner, and that's been a tool that I've used, and I u- use it most day to sort of sketch out what I'm gonna eat. And so if I'm encountering a desire around eating something, and it's not part of my vision, and I'm mostly not snacking, I know that I'm not gonna snack.

If I'm asking, "Darling hunger, is that really you?" Then, and if it's not hunger, then chances are it's something else that needs my attention. And so it's curiosity, [00:13:00] not judgment. It's slowing down. It's, um, what are the other things? We've come up with a list of them. Social stuff was really hard for me.

That's a particular place that coaching was really helpful because I often ate in social, or overate in social situations just to ease my anxiety. And we just kind of took it apart and took breaks or put on a scar- like wrapped a scarf around myself. Just, just kind of that attitude that if the desire to eat manifests outside of my planning or my protocol, really to approach that desire with a kindness and a really, like, "Hunger, darling, is that you?

And if it's not, then it's some other part that's a darling." Mm-hmm. Yeah, so, like, to break that down for anyone listening, I use the protocol as really a guideline to help facilitate that attending to. So it's not like a, [00:14:00] a rigid plan. You can adhere to it exactly, very precisely, but it's more like how you were using it, which is you sketch it out.

I love that phrase of, like, sketching it out, thinking ahead of time. And then when your brain offers a suggestion to eat off of that plan, it's just a opportunity for you to check in. Mm-hmm. And say, "Okay, am I physically hungry? To what degree? And do I like my reasons for going outside of that plan?" Yeah.

Like, this is not a diet. I mean, I just wanna say this is not a diet. I have been with you and traveled and indulged in delicious foods as part of my travel experience, which was really important to me. I was sick two weeks ago and ate only toast for a day. At the end of that, I, it's, I think we've been working together, like, almost six months.

Couple days I was sick, I needed a snack, and I was really like, "Yeah, darling, that is hunger. You do need a snack. You've been sick. You're building back," whatever it [00:15:00] is. And then the way that, you have the exceptions that are... they're not prohibitions, they're just exceptions.

Why do you have it? Is your reason good enough? Listen, I think I ate chocolate almost every single day that I've done this. Every night. Why? Because I planned for it. Because I know that it's something that kind of grounds it. Did I eat a lot of chocolate? Some days, yes.

But then I... You know, whatever. It's not like you can have all the chocolate you want. , But, , the answer is inside. Just the answer is inside the... This is what... That's what's different. You can't find that answer inside unless you slow down. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And that's sort of, kind of... And is it perfect? No. And do, there, there have been times where I've overindulged?

Yeah. But the protocol is a container that holds me and allows me to build trust with myself every day. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay. So good. Um, what are you most proud of? God. [00:16:00] I think, you know, I am so proud of... This is so funny to say. Like, I am so proud and surprised that here I am, like more than 20 pounds down, and the, the things that I really claim as treasures from this experience, the weight loss is great, but it's third or fourth on the list.

Like, that's so surprising, and I'm so proud of myself for, like risking and, , honoring the commitment to myself, and being willing to come to you with, like my shittiest shit. I mean, and I've cried a lot with you. You're younger than I am. I've honored your wisdom and experience. I haven't been ageist.

I've been vulnerable. I've really just fully kind of [00:17:00] loved myself enough to take on something that's been- A pain and a problem and a major source of unhappiness my whole life, and use it as a door, and find out that it's the doorway in. I mean, if you're gonna call this podcast anything, call it The Way In.

Because really it is, it's fundamentally transformed my relationship with myself and my connections to the thing that matters most to me, which is my spouse, my kids, and myself. Mm-hmm. How are you showing up differently now that you can, you just see on a day-to-day basis than previously?

You know, for me, the notion that this long, long, long time enemy is actually the key to the lock, has changed a lot of the ways I feel about other [00:18:00] sensation of the body, including emotion. I reflected on this before we started talking, and I'm a people pleaser, and as a people pleaser, that's just sort of the soup I got cooked in.

And so for a long time I really thought unconsciously, I had an unconscious belief that I needed permission from other people to feel the way I feel, in the same way I believed that I needed permission from the clock or the scale or the diet plan- Mm ... in order to eat. And so the, the notion that I am in charge of these feelings and I get to have them takes the burden off other people in my life to tell me it's okay to feel them.

That's kind of a weird codependent space. And then I just get to have my feelings, and as with hunger, it will pass. You have the feeling, you have the meal. It comes, it goes. It's a light- it's a lightning. It's a long answer to it's [00:19:00] a lightning. It's another kind of lightning. Yeah. And one thing you said in our sessions that really stuck with me, and I've used it with other clients, is giving consent to your- Yeah

emotions. Yeah. I think that's really important phrasing, because it is empowering to say- Yeah ...,"Yes, this is permissible. I give consent to feeling self-pity or deprivation," if that's there, or sadness, whatever is happening. And I don't think I could have done that. I don't think I could have been with these more challenging emotions without consenting to hunger.

You know? You can't befriend hunger unless you consent to it, unless you consent to its presence, its intensity, and, you know, it's not the boss. I'm not saying hunger's the boss and I'm led around by the nose, but I denied it, suppressed it, tried to control it, tried to be the boss of [00:20:00] it, tried to pretend it didn't exist, tried not to feel it, and just knowing it's there.

And then I've, when I was, one of the things I wrote down is I think, I don't know if I, you said it to me directly or if it's in one of your earlier, one of your resources, that you're like, "We could all live on an island for 30 days." Like, it's not a crisis. I grew up with, it was a cri-,"Oh my God, you're hungry.

Are you hungry? I've got you." It's like, you can wait 20 minutes. You are, you're not gonna die. Yeah, and if we think it's, like, this big problem and an emergency, but we think it's required to, uh, reach our body goals, then we will resist it. Yeah. And that's where, like, all of the tension comes versus where w- we wanna completely change how you're viewing it- as bodily sensations so that you give consent, you're befriending it.

It's not that you ignore it, and you eat when you're really hungry, but you just get n- more nuanced in your relationship with that sensation [00:21:00] so that when you're eating, it's appropriate. When you make it friends with it, it tells you the truth. It stops sort of, like, fudging around with you, you know?

Like, last night I was, I, I was hungry. I was... Like, I was, I was hungry. It was 4:30. I was hungry. I was like, "Am I really hungry? Darling, is that you?" I had some wa- you know, we have some tools. We have some tactics. I had some water. I waited 10 minutes. I went, "Uh..." Dinner was out. My husband was like, "I'm not gonna be home."

I was like, "You know what? I, I am hungry." And I'm like, you know, and then I have a plan for that. I have a plan for... I had... I didn't say, "Oh no, I'm hungry. I need..." I had some s- cucumbers and I had a little hummus, and I was like, "Okay, it's fine. I can wait." Yeah. You know, was that a snack? Did it matter? No. It didn't matter.

I was hungry, and it couldn't really wait, and it was bothering me, and I was cranky, and I didn't wanna be cranky. And whatever it was, I was like, I've given myself enough time to honestly answer my question. And, sometimes [00:22:00] when you have that trust established, after I had the cucumbers and hummus, the answer was yes, I was really hungry.

I really was when I had that satisfying, nourishing... Yeah, it wasn't on the protocol, but it's fine. Yeah. And yeah- It's fine ... I wanna go back to one of the things you said, which was, um, when you befriend, like, that hunger piece is, it opens the door to that emotional befriending. Yeah. So how I see it is when hunger's not a problem, then when you experience hunger, e- even the tiniest bit, you're not just turning to food as a distraction.

When you remove that, when you have maybe a protocol in place or something, but you're also honoring your own body, I really do see that as a great way to describe it, as a doorway. Because what happens is, oh, you're not using food as a distraction to, like, numb or to stop any kind of mild hunger sensations.

Then you have to deal [00:23:00] with- Yeah, there's a cast that shows up ... the truth. It's not, it's like hunger is, like, then the ki- then the kids show up, and- Come on. Yeah ... that's what's so great about having the coaching support because Listen, I was a pro at this. I've been... It's not, losing weight is not a problem for me.

You know, and you know that. It's the, the feelings that never got really addressed along the way, and the messaging, and the scripts, and the body noise, and the shame, and the, um, just the, just the beating myself up, and the, how it took me out of connection. Connection with myself, connection with other people, connection really with what I was eating.

Here I am, I love food, and I'm so upset about the way it feels to be hungry, and so upset about the way it [00:24:00] feels to be full that I'm dissociating in the middle of a, of, of much of what I ate. And so That's emotional. Mm-hmm. That's emotional. Mm-hmm. And so attending gently to those emotions is the middle part of this, , with the support of a foundation in the body has been great.

Yeah. It's been great. Yeah. Obviously I totally agree with you on that's where the coaching comes in. So it's like when somebody does any kind of body transformation program, or they get the workouts and they get the meal plan, and they get all of the tools, and maybe there's, like, a little even bit of a mindset stuff in there, right?

To get them motivated. And most people can start doing that, and most people will have initial success for maybe, like, two weeks, or maybe a month if they're lucky. And then it's like, oh, we've removed the food, but we haven't supported you in the reasons why you're returning to overeating or drinking in the first place.

So then that's why [00:25:00] we... It's that 10 pounds that you mentioned of, like, gaining the 10 pounds back. Yeah, like, I'm like, "I've lost 150 pounds. It's just 15 times the same 10 pounds over, and over, and over, and over again." Yeah. So I feel like that's why it's great. We talk about strategy, and we want to have you doing a good strategy, but then really the, the most of the work together is the coaching, the mental, changing your thinking, and the emotional support.

And I just wanna say, you know- The trust level has been so... You make it so safe. I feel I trust you. I feel really safe. You've made it really easy, and you've normalized so many of the kind of most embarrassing or... Like, we had the conversation about me looking at other people's bodies, and I can't remember what you call that thing, but it just was like, I call, I call it the Department of Weights and Measures.

Like, I, that I was walking around looking at everyone and like... And then I was, like, identifying. I've been [00:26:00] identifying other agents in the department 'cause, like, whoever notices, I'm like, "You're in the Department of Weights and Measures." Whoever notices that I've lost weight, and then I've got a list of the people, and I'm like, "Oh, we're in the same department."

And what's the thing you called it?

Yeah, the RAS, reticular activating system. Yeah. Yeah, and I was like, "I'm so embarrassed. I'm so embarrassed that the first thing I do is just look at the size and shape of other people's bodies." And you're like, "Y- you don't have to be embarrassed about that. That's what you were entrained into, and you can retire from the department if you want."

And say to yourself, "Sweetheart, that's not the work you need to be doing." But that was, like, really embarrassing to admit that I have shame and guilt about that. And you just were like, "That's so normal. That's just the way that people are." And I'm like, "Okay, I'm gonna let it go." Yeah. Yeah. It's so nice.

That's what's so nice about this too, is, uh, I'm noticing in the group as well that I'm running, whereas people are like, " Oh, you were thinking that? That's going on inside of your head too? Oh, good." It's just like your shoulders come down a little bit. Yeah. When things normalize, this really [00:27:00] helps us, 'cause we're social creatures and it's...

We, we wanna feel like what we're experiencing is, okay. It's okay. It's okay. Validation. It's okay. Um, the other one that I thought about- Hmm Like, I can't remember w- what exactly you said, but I had a fight with my husband about him not noticing something important to me.

Yes. And maybe he didn't notice, like, I think I'd lost 15 pounds, and he hadn't noticed. And you, you were like, "Well, that, you just have to change your script about..." Was that what you said? You change your script or change your tape? Uh, your manual. Your manual. Your manual. You have to change your manual. You have a manual, and husbands are supposed to do this, and you, you can continue to suffer, or you can change your manual.

And I was so mad at you. Oh my God, I was so... I'm like, "Ah" Oh, so- Yes. Yes. Yeah, that's what I love. It's like, yeah, you, you can be mad about [00:28:00] it be- because this is... That is emotional resonance of like, "Oh, something's changing here." 'Cause that's my job as a coach. Is to challenge you not to be friends.

Yeah. Right. Exactly. I just remember, and then I was like, "I hate that guy." I was so mad, and then I was like, "Argh, Paula's right. I have to change my manual." Yeah. I mean, you could change your manual for him, how... Your expectations of what he should say or do, or you could keep your manual and decide, "Okay, I'm gonna process the negative emotions that I experience from this."

Yeah. There's always that option, too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that was good. Okay. That was so good. I would love to know what you wish other women knew when it comes to releasing weight. Oh. I just think that, uh, the answer's inside, and going in with support really is, a way to [00:29:00] reclaim What's most beautiful?

And, you know, at one point you're like, "What's your secret goal?" And I'm like, "Uh, beauty." And yeah, sure, like exterior beauty. , I do feel my best a little smaller. Um, but look it, I've been a little smaller now, and I can be pretty or ugly based on lots of different things and lots of times of different day, and lots of different feelings.

And, I understand that the life I've lived and the wisdom I've learned are what really strengthen my connection, and this is the part where you start to, that from which my body flows, which really isn't even mine anyhow. Like, what's beautiful in me, That isn't dependent on what the scale [00:30:00] says or the size of the clothes I'm wearing.

And that putting down Like the arms against your hunger and the way you feel inside is like letting yourself free. Because inside is the way into everything that you want, which is beauty and love and connection. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I love how you articulated that because so often I say, you know, part of this work is reconnecting to your body, reconnecting to yourself, but that's what I'm talking about.

That's what you just described. It's like the exterior, yeah, may change, but it's really, oh, I'm connected to the, to beauty in a way that's maybe not even aesthetic. It might be partially, but it's more of like m- my connection to beauty [00:31:00] and my own, with my own thoughts about myself. Yeah, and when that light- Yeah

when that light, when you clear out what's in the way between you and that light, that source of love and light inside of yourself, it comes out. Listen, it's 62. It's kids have come out. It's, it is what it is. I mean, I'm happier. It's like, oh, it's kinda cute again, but in a 62-year-old way.

It's so wonderful. People are like, "You look so great." The, the light is coming out of me. I'm not in charge of that. That's not even necessarily my light. When I talk about joy and beauty, beauty is a thing that is abundant, and it exists, and we all have it and a connection to it. And I guess, you know, I've said it a couple times, for me, I couldn't be more surprised that attending to my hunger has been in the g- and my satiety has been the doorway- 

[00:32:00] Mm-hmm

with your help, so thank you. Yeah, of course. Of course. So then... Yeah, so what's next for you? Um, my son is getting married in April. I'm really excited about that. I'm really excited to feel happy and confident in the pictures. I am gonna do this little sprint here to just kind get down to the, just a little bit more comfort about my range and my set point.

And then, you know, one of the things I've done throughout this is write, and I'm just gonna keep writing. Nice. So good. Okay, great. Amazing. Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate this conversation and for you taking the time just to share your experience. And also, like, it requires a lot of courage to talk about something that is very tender to a lot of us, which is where we've struggled personally, and I just wanna acknowledge that it takes a lot of courage to- No, and I was really…

You know, I was thrilled for the [00:33:00] opportunity to have this discussion. I really just have loved working with you, and I listened to a lot of the episodes. So the idea that this could connect with anybody who's struggling and, wondering if there's a way to feel better, and this story resonates with them, that would make me so happy.

Yeah. And I will say that I get the most feedback from the client stories that I do. That's good. So I do think it really speaks to people. I mean, they can hear me talk about something, but when they hear somebody who's gone through this process and really had a personal transformation using it, it, it means something.

It's like, oh, that makes it more available for them. They get to believe in themselves a little bit more. So it's, like, such a service. Oh, yay. It's been really great. It's been really great. Well, good. So I'll talk to you next week 'cause we'll have a coaching call. Sounds so good. Thanks a lot.

Okay, great. Okay, thanks again. Okay, I'll- Talk to you soon. [00:34:00] Bye.